 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: KristinVanHorn
Date: 2007-07-30 12:05
Ok so I got this Buffet R13 and I've been playing around with it but to me it doesn't seem to have that R13 sound. I'm using a B45 mouthpiece and a Rico Royal 2-1/2 reed but I just can't get that nice R13 tone. Do I need a stronger reed to bring out the tone?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2007-07-30 12:12
It's probably more than the Reed, but that would be a good start. I'm an Artist for the high end of the Rico line so that's what I'll suggest asto a good reed - try the Rico "Reserve" or the Evolution, even the Grand Concert Thick Blank reed in either the 2 1/2 or I''d suggest a #3. Either way they will sound a heck of a lot better.
That's for starters. Than it comes down to your tonal conception, embouchure, support, etc - that's when a good teacher comes in and helps.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Sea Galan
Date: 2007-07-30 14:32
Kristin I also have an R-13 and have been playing clarinet for less that two years so I'm short in experience but I also have been looking for that "real" clarinet sound and I think I have just founded yesterday when I moved up to a #4 reed. I have the feeling that the reed brand is not as important as the strenght. Although the better the reed the better the sound. I'm using an M-13 Lyre mouthpiece and an Optimum ligature with the #2 plate. I used the B-45 for a while but found it hard to play. Last night I was very pleased with the sound and think that I have finally found that "sweet spot" (combination) that all players look for. Good Luck, Carlos
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2007-07-30 14:47
"Sound" depends on many things. The clarinet itself is one. No two sound quite alike. Venue, the acoustics of your immediate environment, is hardly ever mentioned, but it has a major influence on "sound". Then there are reeds, ligature, you,mpc, etc. , such as what the listener says about your sound. Listen to Steve Girko's playing (Dallas Symphony and elsewhere). then work towards that sound. (If you find it let me know).
richard smith
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-07-30 15:13
I would say that a full rich sound is the product of a swift, steady stream of air. What you are using to achieve this is the intercostal muscles between your ribs (the diaphragm only brings air INTO the lungs). The sensation for which you should strive is identical to what you experience when you push to "relieve constipation." Sorry, there's no better way to describe it.
Of course the steady stream of air needs to be concentrated as well. To achieve this goal you need to make sure that your tongue is in the same position it would be if you were saying "EEEEEE." Some mistake "AHHHH" for open throat and big sound (apologies in advance to you folks across the pond), but if you think about it, the back of the tongue gets thrown into your throat and blocks the free flow of air when you produce the "AHHH" sound.
...........hope this helps,
.
...........................Paul Aviles
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Author: Caco185
Date: 2007-07-30 23:14
Might I also add that we never actually hear what we actually sound like. If that makes sense. If I hear myself in symphony, concert band or chamber recordings.. I say.. "That's not me!" In all reality, it really is. The bone make up and fluids in your head cause you to hear a bit of a different sound then what is actually coming out of the horn.
Also, It takes quite a long time to create that full rich clarinet sound. Lots of practice. Long tones and scales can be a big help.
Also I recommend taking Baermann broken chord studies, fifth, sixth and octave studies extremely slowly, listening to each interval and keeping your air steady and full.
BE PATIENT!!! It takes time.
Dale Huggard
Clarinet Performance Major, Michigan
Buffet R-13 - Silver plated
Genussa Excellente
Spriggs Floating Rail Ligature
Vandoren V12 #4
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Author: KristinVanHorn
Date: 2007-07-30 23:37
Caco185 wrote:
> Might I also add that we never actually hear what we actually
> sound like. If that makes sense. If I hear myself in symphony,
> concert band or chamber recordings.. I say.. "That's not me!"
> In all reality, it really is. The bone make up and fluids in
> your head cause you to hear a bit of a different sound then
> what is actually coming out of the horn.
>
> Also, It takes quite a long time to create that full rich
> clarinet sound. Lots of practice. Long tones and scales can be
> a big help.
>
> Also I recommend taking Baermann broken chord studies, fifth,
> sixth and octave studies extremely slowly, listening to each
> interval and keeping your air steady and full.
>
> BE PATIENT!!! It takes time.
>
That's what I like about playing the flute, it sounds like what I hear when other people play. Not near as good but definately close to the same tone. I also love the sound of the clarinet too but a lot more work I guess to get that beautiful sound.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-07-31 01:11
Even air speed is up for debate? Not unless you're talkin' diaphragmatic vibrato.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: kev182
Date: 2007-07-31 19:11
I don't really think anyone can classify an "R13" sound. It's a tool to produce your own unique sound. Although some characteristics may be similar to the same instrument, your sound will always be yours. Maybe your tone is lacking focus? is stuffy? not centered? Although all this problems can occur on any clarinet make or model.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2007-07-31 21:52
Probably need to buy some expensive schwag - like a fancy coconut or bollo bell to round out the sound.
God forbid practice gets mentioned in the pursuit of tone...
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Author: Sea Galan
Date: 2007-07-31 22:10
Mr. Synonymous, you have hit it right on the spot!!! So much talk about ligs, reeds, etc. and not one mention to PRACTICE!!! Practice makes Perfect.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-07-31 23:50
Sea Galan
"Practice makes perfect" is completely false. A pretty idea that has definitely been overused by a wide margin.
Practice makes PERMANENT. If you practice poorly you will perform poorly.
To make the cliche true, you have only to add one word:
PERFECT practice makes perfect.
Of all the advice given above, I most completely agree with Paul Aviles. My fundamentals fall exactly in line with his and it is these concepts that allow my students to play with a beautiful sound (provided they are willing to work towards it).
As for the even air speed debate I'm going to steer clear until I see have David is about to explain. Although I do many things to increase air speed, I do not believe that my air speed is constant.
Lastly...Kristin, the Vandoren website has the B45 rated for Vandoren reeds strength 2.5-3.5 and Rico reeds (the introductory kind) are relatively weak by comparison. I am not suggesting that a stiffer reed will always solve your problem but in this case I would suggest moving up in either brand.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2007-08-01 01:30
Ok, here's the scoop about "slow air"
Michele Zukovsky and I were talking about air at ClarFest when she told me about the slow air concept. It is still a large air column, but not fast "cold air" which most everyone is used to and does (including me!).
Wurlitzer is very big on that concept she was telling me.
I don't use "slow air" myself as I just heard about that concept, but it does intrigue me.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2007-08-01 01:30)
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2007-08-01 02:33
Quote:
Michele Zukovsky and I were talking about air at ClarFest when she told me about the slow air concept. It is still a large air column, but not fast "cold air" which most everyone is used to and does (including me!).I don't use "slow air" myself as I just heard about that concept, but it does intrigue me.
I personally don't think of air in terms of cold or warm, but rather use the imagery my teacher, Julie Vaverka, always reiterated: Speed of air is like the speed of a bow on a stringed instrument. I understood her concept in theory but was unable to employ it correctly until I came across one of Tony Pay's descriptions of support and had a light bulb moment.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=204133&t=203999
In his posting, Tony described how he had created the perfect diminuendo:
Tony Pay wrote:
Quote:
"I knew that I could blow 'harder than I played', in the sense that my abdominal muscles could be more flexed in a piano passage than normal. The idea occurred to me to try consciously to keep the abdominal flexion absolutely constant, and look at my experience while I made a diminuendo to nothing.
I found that, not only did my diminuendo occur as elegantly as I'd ever done it, but that during it the only perceptible change was the one that came in through my ears. Nothing in my body seemed to alter."
My technical flaw had been squeezing the air out, or pushing it out by "sucking in" my abdominal muscles. For me, this doesn't work as I end up using my throat to control the speed of air. Things became much simpler when I began to employ the method of support described above by Tony Pay. It was at this point I could relate to the metaphor for the speed of air as speed of bow and I can now easily control ppp entrances and great dynamic contrast.
Post Edited (2007-08-01 02:40)
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Author: kev182
Date: 2007-08-01 04:03
so you are saying you keep your air pressure from your abdominal muscle constant while you control air speed with your throat? or visa versa?
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Author: Sea Galan
Date: 2007-08-01 14:44
Jeff, how can "practice" be "perfect"??? The idea of practice is to become good at something. If you practice perfect then you are already there and don't really have to practice. The cliche" Practice makes Perfect" has been around since some caveman started banging two rocks together and came out with rythm. On the other hand I do agree with you that the better you practice the better you will become. There are many kinds of players. Those who make a living out of it and obviously have to take playing any instrument very serious and the majority of us that use the clarinet just as a way to have fun and find relaxation. With all due respect to Paul Aviles I really never think of diafragmatic vibrato when I'm tooting my clarinet. Carlos
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-08-01 14:57
Carlos,
Cliche's have been around for ages (that's how they become cliche) whether they are accurate or not!
"Perfect practice makes perfect" is the response of those who have realized that you can waste hours of practice time if you do not practice in a methodical way. That's all!
It is the commitment to discovering what the problem is, and reducing it into sections or tempi that can be played perfectly every time...without concern for what the final tempo will be. That you will practice only perfectly until you can play at the final tempo perfectly.
We haven't heard from Kristin for a while...so I'm hoping (to begin with) that she's out buying a stronger reed (as a first solution)!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-08-02 17:08
Perhaps one would reinforce bad habits with long hours of doing something incorrectly.
And perhaps Kristin is using more breath support.
.........Paul Aviles
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Author: Dano
Date: 2007-08-03 15:19
The question is almost like asking, "How do I get to sound like Benny Goodman?" Once you get your chops up and you have some all around experience, you will be able to get that "R-13 sound" on any brand of clarinet. After all, can you tell when someone is playing a certain brand of clarinet?
DTH is right to the point. Just practice.
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Author: bstutsman
Date: 2007-08-08 01:15
I am surprised no one has suggested this.
A B45 is a somewhat open mouthpiece. I would suggest trying a 5RV or 5RVLyre with an appropriate reed. Perhaps a V12 3.5.
I know there will be disagreement, but it's been my experience that a moderately closed mouthpiece works well for getting that classical clarinet sound.
I thought this was maybe common knowledge, but am I really alone here?
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