 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: vjoet
Date: 2007-07-25 15:18
In high school and college, I would get boxes of #5 Vandorens, and with reed rush and fine-grit sandpaper would hone them down into a good playing reed.
Now that I've resumed playing after 35 years away from it, I've been using #3s (56 Rue Lepic or V12 or Zonda or Xilema or Gonzales).
Today I opened a partial box of #5 from 1970. And notice some striking differences:
1. They are much thinner at the heel.
2. When dropped onto a hard surface they resound with beautiful woody ping. None of my new #3s resound such.
Using fine grit sandpaper and reed rush, I trimmed them down. It took about 7 or 8 repeated adjustments per reed, but now I have 4 concert ready reeds. Their tone is mellow, yet warm and with rich harmonics. Dynamic range is broad, response to staccato and altissimo is excellent.
Questions:
1. I'm wondering if the results are from the very hard, dense fibers in #5s?
2. And if so, would I get similar results with new V12 #5s? Or has the aging impacted them, and new reeds would not give the same result?
3. Do any list members hone #5s down to playing strength?
Best wishes,
Vann Joe
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ChrisArcand
Date: 2007-07-25 16:12
My vote: It's all about the aging.
Looks like we should start buying reeds and stowing them - "Today I opened a complete box of #5 from 2007".... :-)
Actually, I vote that it's due to the fact that the finer quality of reeds in 1970, combined with the aging, is the cause...I bet today's V12's wont be as you describe 37 years from now.
CA
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: butterflymusic
Date: 2007-07-25 16:34
In my college days (19 oh-my-god 70's) I used Vandoren 5's and would do as you described. I had a custom cut piece of glass, reed knife, clipper, fine grit sandpaper, etc. Then, during a 20-year hiatus my clarinets (with reed equipment in the case) were stolen and now since I've started playing again I'm using Rico Grand Concert Select and Vandoren 4's with -- if memory serves -- the same result.
Or maybe I've just gotten lazier, er, "more efficient". 
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2007-07-25 16:40
Although today I play a much lighter reed, I also played Vandoren #5's in college in the late 60's and early 70's. What was I thinking? ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
There is no doubt in my mind that the Vandoren reeds of 30 - 40 years ago were a very different animal than what we see today.
First, the old plastic purple box Vandoren reeds of the late 60's and early 70's were thin blank reeds. The subsequent thicker blank V12's, which were a reaction to the successful Morre reeds, were not yet in production.
Therefore comparing the Vandoren reeds from the early 70's to today's V12's is not a valid comparison. Two totally different profiles and designs.
Since I do age my reeds, I still have numerous boxes of Vandoren reeds from the late 60's, as well as my very limited cache of Morre's. The cane WAS different. Whether it was more dense, better quality, cut with more accuracy or any number of other factors, the sound of a great Vandoren (or Morre) reed was a thing of beauty.
I'm not saying that today's reeds are rubbish. That is hardly the case. However, helping them along by aging them for a minimum of 12 months certainly does not hurt...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ABerry
Date: 2007-07-25 16:46
Hi Vann,
I am also a returning player (21 year layoff), and I also used Vandoren #5s in the plastic purple box. Upon returning, I purchased a few boxes of the new Vandoren “Traditional” #5s in the blue/dark purple cardboard box. In comparison, the two reeds looked almost identical in shape and thickness, but as for playability, the new #5 was like trying to play a 2 x 4. The old 5 reeds are probably closer to the new 3.5 or 4.
While in college my teacher always encouraged me to buy several boxes of reeds at a time, date them and store half of them away for one, two years so the reeds could become “seasoned” as he would say. Due to this “seasoning” or aging, I believe older reeds tend to be more consistent and stable than newer reeds. I also have found my old #5 reeds to have a warm and mellow tone. I usually find several more than the “1 good reed per box”. I know there may be several here that may disagree or remain unconvinced about the aging effect, but I can only speak from my own experiences.
As for getting similar results from V12 #5s, you’ll have to try them. I also use the Vandoren V12 #5, Black Master #5, and Rue Lepic #5, however with Gonzalez FOF, I use 4 ½ and 4 ¾ and Zonda reeds, 4.5 Q and 5.0 R & S.
Allan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Peter Spriggs
Date: 2007-07-25 16:49
I still have dozens of boxes of the old Vandoren #5 reeds in the purple plastic boxes and even some from before that in the purple cardboard boxes. All of these are unopenned and I still use them. I have a lifetime supply and beyond. NOTHING compares to the quality of these reeds. I used to buy a lot and date them and then when I open a box I always open the oldest ones first. I personally feel that they are not just great because they are aged, although that helps, they were great when I bought them as well. Before these they also used to come in cardboard boxes of 25.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2007-07-25 17:07
Peter Spriggs wrote:
> Before these they also used to come in
> cardboard boxes of 25.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury - I submit that the plantiff is older than me and even still owns a black and white television.
...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ABerry
Date: 2007-07-25 17:14
GBK & Peter,
I also have several of the purple cardboard boxes, only these have 10 reeds and instead of flipping open (like the plastic box), these slide open like a box of matches...
Allan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ChrisArcand
Date: 2007-07-25 17:59
I have reeds from the 1930's, so there. :-)
Can't remember the name of them, I'll dig them out sometime. And they come in a yellow/brown lid style box, holding about 8 in a package.
CA
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Peter Spriggs
Date: 2007-07-25 20:24
GBK,
No black & white, but I do also have an old Rico Reed box. It is actually made of wood, likely cedar and came with 25 reeds. Never did like Rico though.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2007-07-25 21:10
Hi neighbor Vann. I received an old box of vd reeds from that era also and note the darker color maiinly. My opinion is the aging removes all the moisture content which increases the modulus of elasticity.....makes the reeds "springier".
During my hs days( WWII) cane reeds were almost impossible to get and some guys even whittled down tongue depressors. Mainly we used those junk white plastic reeds and/or kept clipping and clipping.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2007-07-29 14:49
Ah, more pieces of the puzzle. I've been playing purple-box early-70's Vandoren 5's, and was surprised when people suggested they were too stiff. I even have to clip some over-responsive specimens. It's good to learn that those older reeds correspond to 3.5s or 4s in the current Vandoren line. (BTW, thanks to everyone in this forum for a continuous stream of valuable information.)
So far, each old purple box seems to supply a couple of reeds that play easily and beautifully with no modification, and a handful that play well enough for practice with little or no modification. There's usually also several dogs that are very unresponsive or crazed. Since I'm still unknowlegeable on modifying reeds, I practice even on the dogs and work on making them sound the best I can, in hopes that they will become more playable with time, which does work on some.
In the old days, if a reed really pissed me off, I'd burn it with a blowtorch or run over it with a car or boil it in oil or something, then enshrine it in a rogue's gallery I kept (now lost.) Apparently I've aged beyond that silliness, though I'm still occasionally tempted.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2007-07-29 15:49
I had bought up some old store stock of these Vandoren "purple box" 5's a number of years ago and used them exclusively for years. The aging may have helped, but as some mention, the strength is nowhere near what current 5's are. I could play many of these old 5's right out of the box, or perhaps with a bit of touch up, while out of the current 5's, many would be used for little more than shims in homebuilding projects. They are simply the stiffest reeds I could imagine and even after working them down, some are still unplayable. It is almost as if they take anything that is over a certain stiffness and throw them in the 5 box.
The old ones are great reeds. Good color, great density and boy do they last. I could play on them seemingly forever. I do think the long aging helps.
What makes me laugh is that I recall when these reeds in the purple plastic boxes were being sold in the 70's and early 80's. At the time, people told me "The current Vandorens are lousy, they were great 20 or 30 years ago" Now that these reeds are old, when I would be at a gig and mention to another clarinet player that I was playing on purple box Vandorens, they would get a wistful look and reply "Ah, that was when they were good!"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bill
Date: 2007-07-29 17:30
I had several unopened boxes (purple plastic) at a strength of 2.5 - 3.0. They were the color of water-stained Heywood-Wakefield furniture, or a deep gray-amber. They were all, every one, unplayable.
Bill.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
