 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-07-23 16:51
I've just finished overhauling an F. Arthur Uebel Oehler-system clarinet and am having a good time learning to play it. As a long-term Boehm-system clarinetist but an advanced-beginner oboe hacker, the Oehler-system fingerings appear to be a nice synergy of oboe and Boehm clarinet fingering schemes. An oboist friend of mine called it "recorder fingering".
I was wondering how many Boehm-trained clarinetists on the BB have gotten comfortable playing Oehler system, either exclusively or in parallel with playing Boehm system? And of those who play both systems regularly, have you found any particular advantages/disadvantages of either?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-07-23 19:19
I find once I've got accustomed to playing Oehler, it takes some getting used to when changing back to Boehm, and getting used to the set-up and sound when going from Oehler to Boehm.
Both systems have their good points and bad points, though I'm obviously more inclined to play (full) Boehm due to several things I can't do that well on Oehler in comparison to full Boehm - I find throat F to Eb isn't easy on Oehler due to having to slide between the side keys, throat Bb only has the one fingering and having to put down RH little finger for E or B.
But Oehlers have the upper hand when it comes to B-C# above the break as you only need to open and close the F/C key, and the forked fingerings for top Bb and C have a sound that is sublime in comparison to the 'openness' of Boehm systems (although I do have forked Bb on my Boehm clarinets), and the much fuller sounding E (xoo|ooo) and C (xxx|ooo) in the lower register.
But give the Oehler plenty of time for you to get used to, I think it's worth exploring the German repertoire (Brahms, Schumann, etc.) with an instrument more akin to what he'd have written for as you'll find things that you may not have noticed before.
And then try the French repertoire on an Oehler!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: donald
Date: 2007-07-23 19:51
i have no problem with Oehler fingerings, but do find the left hand little finger keys to be uncomfortable in their placement, at least in the instruments i've been lucky to play
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-07-23 20:25
The LH Ab/Eb is set too far round (for me) though the LH F key is fine.
But at least with Oehlers not having any connections between the joints, the top and bottom joints don't have to line up so the LH levers can be brought round to a more comfortable position by having the joints out of line with each other.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: thomas.b
Date: 2007-07-24 15:41
Chris, why do you slide between the side keys for throat F to Eb ? use the 4-fingering for Eb left fourth finger
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-07-24 21:46
I do slide, but to me it feels cumbersome having been brought up on clarinets where I can play Eb as xox|ooo and the F with just the thumb only.
It's something I will need to work at to get to grips with, especially playing in flat keys in that part of the register.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-07-24 23:27
I played pretty much exclusively on one or the other. Fingerings are very close but just different enough to be confusing. Also, the feel of the set up for the reed/mouthpiece is too different (at least for me) to do both well at the same time. I've heard stories that a few of the Chicago Symphony players use the orchestra's Wurlitzers on special occasions but it's hard to swallow until I hear it from Larry or John personally.
.........Paul Aviles
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-07-25 00:15
Paul -
I've heard it from Larry Combs personally. They play the Wurlitzers in Mahler symphonies, for example.
I play a lot of recorder, so I have no particular difficulty switching from Boehm to German fingering. However, I find the stretch between the right index and middle fingers quite uncomfortable, and my right wrist starts hurting after a few minutes because I have to bend it to the side to get my right little finger on the keys.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2007-07-25 01:25
Larry, John, and I *do* play our own Oehler system clarinets for repertoire that would benefit from their particular tonal characteristics. This includes anything from the Mozart Gran Partitta to the Mahler symphonies. We recorded the Mahler 5th live a few years back - still available on DVD - while playing these German system clarinets. The CSO also owns a Fritz Wurlitzer Basset Horn formerly belonging to George Weber (CSO Bass Clarinetist for many years) that my section colleagues have played frequently.
The choice to play these instruments is highly dependent on whether we have the time to prepare or learn a new piece with our full schedules. We have also individually performed several works from the chamber music repertoire outside of the orchestra on these instruments. It has been a worthwhile endeavor in terms of understanding what the composer may have had in mind when writing for these types of instruments. It is particularly informative to play, several occasions on the same concert as the Oehler systems clarinets, our French system clarinets for the French or other non-German repertoire.
Gregory Smith
http://www.gregory-smith.com
Post Edited (2007-07-25 02:03)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-07-25 11:17
Dear Greg,
Thank you for the clarification on the use of the oehlers. I wonder though if for expediency's sake there may not be too much compromise on the mouthpiece/reed side of the house to allow such switching. In otherwords, are you really reaping the benefits of the German sound with the set up you need to use to accomplish this feat?
Just askin'
..........Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-07-25 12:20
Do German or Austrian players use a double-lip embouchure?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2007-07-25 14:28
Hi Paul -
Larry and I use the same sort of mthpc reed combination as many German clarinetists - Wurlitzer mthpcs and Vandoren White Master (German cut) 2.5's. This setup is now and has been used for quite some time in the Berlin Philharmonic among other German orchestras.
We do accommodate this setup by doing what it requires to play our Wurlitzer/Oehler clarinets at the same level as the Boehm/Klose system:
Hold the clarinet out at more of an angle, tuck more lip over the bottom teeth and relax the embouchure. Relative to the more open French mthpc/reed combination, very little muscle support is needed due to the style of facing - one just needs to provide a seal and perfect pressure point that is lower on the facing with the bottom jaw/teeth by taking slightly more mthpc.
I don't think that anyone would confuse either of our sounds and agility with that of Karl Leister but what German clarinetist sounds like him? He did for the German clarinet what Marcellus did at one time for the French clarinet - unprecedented and unique in every way.
As far as how we end up sounding on German clarinets, I don't think that one would be able to tell that we were not German-trained from the very beginning. We and our colleagues in the wind section do notice a quantifiable difference in timbre from the French system.
We just don't have the kind of acquired technical facility that it would take to play the entire repertoire as if we had learned it from the very beginning. If that is a result of a lack of time to learn all of it and simply impossible because of how late we started doing this in our careers, or if lack of technical facility is a result of having not learned from the beginning, I would probably choose the latter in my case. Larry would have to venture a guess for himself on the subject.
I personally have used both types of clarinets on recitals including one at the Oklahoma convention a few years ago.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-07-25 20:41
I'm seriously considering playing Oehler system with the wind 5tet.
I generally play clarinet with it held out front (soprano sax/oboe angle) and find this also works with the German style set-up. But I watched the Berlin players on telly a few years back and they held their clarinets very much downwards. Even so, hearing the 3rd movement of Beethovens 9th was absolutely sublime with their rich woodwind textures, and to me, the upper register on Oehler system just seems to have a lot more substance to it as well as packing more power without going thin - especially when using forked and cross fingerings.
Although I'm using the stock Yamaha mouthpiece that came with my Oehler system, it's not a bad 'piece and has a concave table.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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