 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Fontalvo
Date: 2007-07-16 21:47
You tube and do a search for Clarinet Masterclass........its about five minutes and you can learn a couple things.
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Author: marzi
Date: 2007-07-16 23:28
cool, thats the same piece my teacher had me work on a few years ago,!
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Author: Bubalooy
Date: 2007-07-18 21:33
Ok I haven't even seen the master class. But, Iceland clarinet, I've never heard you play. Perhaps you're the greatest clarinetist in the world. I have read you trashing Karl Leister, Sabine Meyer, and now some student. Does it just make you feel better about yourself to critisize others? Some of whom are very likely your betters? Just try listening to yourself. Better still, see if you can go 2 weeks without negative comments on someones playing. You might be surprised at how you come across to others. I can't say for sure but I doubt if I'm alone in this sentiment. No I'm not writing about the original content of the thread either, but what satisfaction are you getting from this attitude.?
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-07-18 23:29
Bubalooy I'm getting the same satisfaction from my attitude torwards Karl Leister as you torwards me!!!!!!!! And btw I never said that Sabine Meyer isn't good just that she is more popular than her brother which I think is a better player. But Karl Leister will always be in my mind a very boring player.
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Author: SirAdamWilliams
Date: 2007-07-19 18:42
Well, I think as clarinetists, or just musicians (maybe even humans) in general, it's alway MUCH easier to critcize than to be criticized.
That young girl was obviously a student, and quite a good one at that. And music is, in it's best sense, a CONSTANT progression, so who are we to pass judgement on someone so early in their musical development?
Your comments, while still yours, aren't wanted or needed. The only thing they relayed to everyone was your negativity, and stating your opinion just to be spiteful is quite low.
Maybe I'm just being temperamental, but it is just my very humble opinion, and I think we all need to be more "human" in our comments.
:)
But about the original topic... I think it's a great clip! I've seen parts of the DVD, and I loved it! Any help on the Mozart Concerto is always needed.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-07-19 22:12
SirAdamWilliams if you don't like people being "negativ" as you say then why being negativ torwards me ?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-07-19 22:29
Iceland clarinet wrote:
> SirAdamWilliams if you don't like people being "negativ" as you
> say then why being negativ torwards me ?
I think the pronouncements you have made, both now and in the past, bring forth the wondering "just who are you?". Iceland isn't horribly well known for it's world-class clarinetists, though there may be some I don't know of.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-07-20 02:32
Mark Charette wrote:
"I think the pronouncements you have made, both now and in the past, bring forth the wondering "just who are you?". Iceland isn't horribly well known for it's world-class clarinetists, though there may be some I don't know of."
Some players are better than others and some students are better than others. My favourite players are not from Iceland.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2007-07-20 15:37
Never try to teach a pig to sing. If frustrates you … and annoys the pig!
Stefan,
It's now been about a day-and-a-half since Bubaloy targeted criticism directly at you and your opinions and not one single person has come forward to post in your support. As far as I know, that is unprecedented on this bulletin board. Not one person who has read your postings in the past has come forward to say the criticism is unfair or too harsh.
Perhaps you think no one here is intelligent enough to appreciate the wisdom of your insight. But I suspect that the reason you're not getting any respect is because you've managed to convince most of us that your signal to noise ratio is so low that it wouldn't budge a meter. Most of what you bring us is unsupported, unsubstantiated and remarkably immature opinion (e.g., about the failings of other musicians) or "facts" that you have made up (e.g., reeds that don't require four days to break in -- that play well immediately out of the box -- are made from inferior cane). I suspect the problem may be a tendency to draw broad conclusions from too limited observation.
You can try to defend your remarks until the cows come home. As long as you can't do better than the lashing out that has characterized your "replies" thus far, you merely confirm low opinions of you. The fact that no one else seems to be willing to come to your support should be telling you something.
Are you entitled to have opinions about the way others play the clarinet? Certainly. Do you have to justify those opinions with solid argument? Not as long as you keep them to yourself. But when you start trying to influence me by casting yourself in the role of critic, a whole new standard applies because, until you convince me that you know what you're talking about, I am not going to regard you as any kind of expert. Indeed, by now, you have convinced me far to the contrary. (And, as for your "facts," we can certainly do without them.)
As near as I can tell, you're a college-aged student with about 12 or 13 years clarinet study behind you -- old enough and far enough along in your studies to know much more than you apparently do. Regardless of any technical skill you may possess, it's clear to me that you haven't learned nearly as much as most of your contemporaries who post here. And you certainly have some growing up to do. You should understand that the impression you make as a person can undermine whatever impression you might make as a musician. It's a fact of life. (And I'm not making it up.)
I have recordings with some remarkable performances by Icelandic clarinetists so, regardless of your opinion of them (which I really don't care about), I know that the state of clarinetistry in your country is not nearly as low as the impression your personal example suggests.
You would do yourself (and the board) a lot more good if you would only contribute commentary when you know what you're talking about and where the thread calls for information or opinion (e.g., your recent posting on rondo form, which was helpful). Your comments on the student in the Guy DePlus masterclass were uncalled for. Fontalvo didn't ask, "What do you think of her playing?" He simply said, "Hey, here's a masterclass with some interesting points." Those comments were also unprofessional. Drawing a conclusion about someone's abilities based on so brief an excerpt in such poor sound demonstrates your total lack of qualification to serve as a critic.
My $.02+
jnk
Post Edited (2007-07-20 18:02)
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Author: Chauncey
Date: 2007-07-20 19:37
"But Karl Leister will always be in my mind a very boring player."
...Heard his version of Brahms' first sonata, second movement?
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Author: Bubalooy
Date: 2007-07-20 22:31
Dear Icelandic
"I'm getting the same satisfaction from my attitude towards Karl Leister as you towards me"
Actually, I tried to help you. I pointed out what I believe is a problem and made a suggestion as to something you might do to improve upon it. This would lead to your own greater happiness I believe.
When you comment that a player is boring, there is no positive goal to the comment. It becomes a bit better if you can say how or why that player is boring, and even better if you can inform what can be done to make the playing (at least in your opinion) more exciting. I have said that perhaps you are a great player. I don't know, never having heard you. If you were in the role of conducting a master class, I hope that you wouldn't leave off with only the comment that the playing is boring. I get no great joy out of saying things negative about you, I would only like to help you become a bit less boorish.
Post Edited (2007-07-20 22:32)
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-07-31 00:34
I like a variet tone colors and Mr Leister has in my opinion one straight sound. Sabine Meyer isn't my favourite clarinetist but she can get variet tone colors. I also like to point out that Peter Schmidl gets in my opinion a variet colors from his clarinet when I don't hear much colors from Alfred Prinz. I bought last week a cd of Spanish music for clarinet and piano with Joan Enric Lluna and what a variet sound he get from his clarinet. It's just like a painter painting a masterpiece in lost of bright colors.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2007-07-31 01:24
I thought that was a great video, thanks for sharing! The student is, I'm sorry to say so Iceland, quite good. I didn't always like some of the things she did with the Mozart, and for the most part I agreed with Guy's suggestions.
As for my opinion about 'boring' playing... I think there can be two kinds, both good if done properly: colorful and interesting playing, and gracefully consistent playing. I personally think that this student was going for a mix of both, and for maximum effect should pick one or the other, and she is obviously capable of both.
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Author: Firebird
Date: 2007-07-31 03:04
That was an excellent one. I must say that it's good to hear from Guy Deplus on his opinion of Mozart's Concerto, after all I myself have difficulties in trying to find the 'right' way to play Mozart.
Iceland: I thought the clarinettist was excellent in many aspects, and you didn't have to lambast her playing. Besides, I don't think you ought to be thrashing some of the greatest clarinettists of all time like Leister and Prinz.
We all have opinions all right, but you sounded outright aggresive.
Chan
Post Edited (2007-07-31 12:38)
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-07-31 11:42
Firebird read my comment I only thrased Leister and Prinz and took Schmidl and Meyer as example of players from same school(Austrian and German) as example of variet playing.
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Author: Firebird
Date: 2007-07-31 12:39
Are you even as good as Leister or Prinz?
You are not even fit to critisise their playing.
Chan
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-07-31 14:41
Firebird wrote:
> Are you even as good as Leister or Prinz?
>
> You are not even fit to critisise their playing.
That's a specious statement ... we all have the right to criticize. Whether or not the criticism has any weight is a more important feature.
Along with leaving trolls alone.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-07-31 16:31
Just so it's 100% clear then I do indeed totally respect people that like Karl Leister's and Alfred Prinz's playing.
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-07-31 17:04
"Just so it's 100% clear then I do indeed totally respect people that like Karl Leister's and Alfred Prinz's playing."
I think what is concerning is that you don't respect Leister's and Prinz's playing. It shows a lack of perspective and maturity on your part. You don't have to like them but to call their playing boring and everything else you said is quite frankly misinformed and closed minded.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-07-31 18:41
Sorry I don't know if you do but I usually don't lie so if I find their playing boring then I don't say something else. I don't dislike the Austrian or German style of playing the clarinet but some players are in my opinion better than others. I really like Gervase de Peyer but frankly I can't say that I really like Emma Johnson playing although they have similar tone concept.
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2007-08-01 15:07
I feel that Iceland Clarinet has a right to an opinion. If you don't agree, say so, but don't make it a personal attack on him.
(On this point Iceland clarinet, I think its important that you always clarify that when criticising a player, it is important to separate the playing and their playing.)
When you write things down (particularly in what may be a second language - correct me if I'm wrong) they are open to all sorts of interpretation. If I met Iceland Clarinet, I may or may not find him agreeable or entertaining, or somewhat offensive. However, I think its really dangerous to formulate a negative view towards someone when the evidence is open to interpretation. And in a bulletin board like this, a particular interpretation of what is written can tend to snowball from person to person.
I think that from the safety of your home, its very easy to take a position of extreme superiority and try and teach people a lesson (I know I have been guilty of this in the past) From my experience, this is usually based on an emotional reaction and not a particularly rational thought process.
Anyway just my thoughts
Alex
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Author: Robyn_765
Date: 2007-08-01 17:52
I thought the student was very good, especially considering she had Mr. Deplus singing in her ear and stopping her every 3 measures telling her what she had done wrong. I assume this is the nature of the masterclass, but we should give her credit that this is, essentially, a practice session, not a performance.
I thought the class itself was really interesting to watch.
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2007-08-02 00:19
Great youtube. Thank you for sharing. I wonder all other 'masterclasses' are done that way? Here in Korea we also have some (famous) foreign clarinetists coming and offer these classes mainly to clarinet major students.
Re: Iceland's criticisms. It's always interesting to know people's opinions on some players' playing etc, and I've seen tons of quite heated debates going on here on this board. That's good .. for improving one's English as second/foreign language. I remember several years ago, reading, writing and trying to understand what such talented musicians want to say all have contributed to my English.
Frankly speaking, I wholeheartedly agree with Jack Kissinger's points.
Lucy Lee Jang
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