 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2007-07-14 22:04
I have posted this question on the end of somebody else's thread but had no reply. I hope it is in order to try again with a new thread of its own.
The question is about my Evette and Schaeffer clarinet
I think the gist of model designation is:
Evette model became the E10 and has serial number starting with a D. Student model
Evette and Schaeffer model became the E13 and has serial number starting with a K. High end intermediate model.
Evette Master model became E12
Evette and Schaeffer Master model â still E13 but of better quality (?wood quality)
I have a clarinet that has Evette and Schaeffer stamped on all four pieces (as photo shows)
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z110/CJ010101/IMG_3644comp.jpg
But the serial number appears to once have been a D and has a slightly larger K stamped over it.
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z110/CJ010101/IMG_3634.jpg
So my questions are:
Would others agree that the serial letter looks altered?
Is the pedigree of these instruments more associated with the Evette and Schaeffer designation than the serial letter prefix?
Does anybody have a model with a K serial number, and if so does it appear same font and relative size as mine?
Does this represent a factory error â or might some (sad) person have gone to the bother to change the serial to make it look like a âKâ series?
The clarinet sounds great. This is for interest only
Chris
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Author: susieray
Date: 2007-07-14 22:49
Chris,
It could be a factory error, or it could be one of the Evette & Schaeffers out there that were actually made by Malerne....those had D prefixes. Does your horn have metal tenon rings on the center tenon by any chance?
Sue
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2007-07-14 22:58
Sue
Thanks for the reply. There are no metal tenon rings. Who was Malerne!?......
Might an instrument by Malerne be restamped to a K from a D?
I'm intrigued now!
Chris
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2007-07-14 23:19
Chris,
I have looked at three different K-series E&S instruments that I have and, in every case, the K is larger than the numbers and looks just like yours.
To me, the "D" looks like it could just have been a random scratch that happened to look like a letter. Does it appear on the other joint? The K-series E&S were made in a different factory from the D-series Evettes so I think it unlikely that Buffet would have been correcting an error and the E&S marque (which looks fine on yours) would be much more difficult to "counterfeit." I think you have a legitimate E&S, made in 1961, probably with a polycylindrical bore.
Edited to comment on "Malerne" Buffets. There is no evidence that Malerne EVER made Evette and Schaeffers or that they EVER made D-series Evettes. E&S clarinets were made in the main Paris Buffet factory. D-Series Evettes were made in Paris by Buffet in a separate factory. There has been some speculation (based primarily on the "Sponsored by ..." inscription that appeared on the pre-D-series Evettes) that these may have been stenciled, possibly by Malerne. No one has ever provided any evidence to support this contention and Buffet brochures indicate that Buffet made them.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2007-07-14 23:25)
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Author: susieray
Date: 2007-07-15 00:13
jack,
There was an Evette & Schaeffer on the auction site a year or so
ago, which interested me because it had a D prefixed serial rather
than K. I'd never seen an Evette & Schaeffer with a D prefix, and
the keywork was different than any other Evette & Schaeffer I had
ever seen, so I emailed Vytas about it.
He said it looked very familiar to him and then he realized why.....
it was exactly the same as a Malerne Four Star Professional
he had overhauled. I did not save the pictures from the auction
listing but maybe Vytas will chime in here. There was no question
about this; they were the same instrument. The Malerne
professional also has a D prefixed serial number BTW.
Sue
Post Edited (2007-07-15 00:37)
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2007-07-15 01:21
I think Vytas has been following the Board recently. It would be nice to see what he remembers. It would be particularly great if he downloaded and saved any of the pictures. Do you remember, offhand, any of the specific characteristics you noticed about the keywork? Also, did it have the normal E&S logo or was that also unusual?
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: susieray
Date: 2007-07-15 03:10
The trill key guide was flat and pointed like an older E & S, but the throat A and Ab keys had separate posts like the "newer" ones. That was the first thing that I thought was fishy. I remember that the banana keys were fatter than usual and the bridge key had ears on the bottom. Also there was metal on the center tenon, both above and below the cork.
It had the normal E & S logo if I remember correctly. I am sure Vytas noticed more details than I did since he works on these things!
Sue
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-07-15 03:25
Sue Raycraft (susieray) came across this E&S MM clarinet on eBay, it had the separate posts for the throat G# and A keys but the flat trill key guide. I once mentioned on BBoard that Buffet never used that combination. I thought there was something fishy about this particular clarinet. The keywork was not Buffet at all. The bridge-key had 'ears' on the bottom. The first key cup on the LJ is under the angle. Banana keys were fatter. Tenon cap on the top and the full cap on the entire bottom tenon (on both shoulders) of the UJ. Post locking screws were different and some were placed in different spots etc. The serial number was D31xx. Clarinet had the normal E&S logo with the "Master Model" below and not as part of the logo. I was pretty confident at that point; this clarinet was not made in the Buffet factory. The more I looked at this clarinet the more it looked exactly like Malerne 4 Star Professional serial #D257X clarinet I just recently overhauled. I checked the Malerne and it was a perfect match. There is no doubt this E&S MM was made by Malerne and it's the same as Malerne "4 Star Professional" or Malerne "Artist" model.
Thanks to Sue this fact alone led to further shocking discovery. LOL
Buffet claims that E&S model was always made in the main factory but that is simply not true and it has nothing to do with this single E&S MM clarinet made by Malerne. The shocking part is that all E&S clarinets other than K-series have not been made by Buffet at all but rather by other manufacturer. The Buffet started K-series E&S clarinets (so called French bore) in the 30's and continue up to this date for their semiprofessional line clarinets. That's why you never find any 'B' or 'D' series E&S clarinet on the serial number list. Also, it was always strange to me to see E&S B-series clarinet made in the 40s-50s when K-series were still around (K-series started earlier than B-series). What kind of sequence is this?
Anyway only the K-series E&S have been made in the main Buffet factory and the others are Malerne "Intermediate", Malerne "4 Star Professional" or Malerne "Artist" models etc.
I think Buffet will find who to blame for this. It's the distributor's fault LOL. The distributor made up this 'the same factory story'. Just like it happen with the R13 and Buffet knew nothing about existence of this model before the introduction of the polycylindrical bore. The same story is with the E13 model. In the brochure from the 30's E&S is listed as E13. I wander if Buffet is aware of this or it's just the American distributor's fault again?
Also, the bore, tone hole undercutting, keywork etc. is different on K-series than you find on the professional Buffet clarinets of the corresponding era. Some of E&S clarinets do not have undercut tone holes at all. So, how in the world you can call E&S clarinet a "Modele Buffet-Crampon"?
And yes I have all the pictures I need to prove it.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2007-07-15 13:45)
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Author: Chris Horril
Date: 2007-07-15 10:40
I have an Evette & Schaeffer E13 which I purchased new in 1975. The serial number is K282--. The is smaller than yours - its exactly the same size as the following digits.
Chris
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2007-07-15 13:11
I've read somewhere quite a while back so I can not reference the writing, but it was a history of clarinet manufacture in France. This writing claimed that craftsmen from Buffet et al would work at another companies after their shift was over since they were located in close proximity. I would like to say two of them were Malerne and Buffet but can't be 100% since the reading was quite a long time ago. Maybe someone else can verify. Oh, yes I remember now. There was a web site a French fellow put up that was developing some sort of a historical museum of instrument manufature in France. I don't know if the site is still up. The only reason I know is because he bought a rather unique antique Noblet clarinet from me when I was still participating in the "auction" site and told me of the project in his emails.
At any rate, this might give an explaination as to why the letter was double stamped with two different letters.
John
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2007-07-15 17:31
What a wealth of combined knowledge, you all represent!
Thnak you for your replies. I have taken some more photos to see how they compare to other K series instruments, or to the instrument that Sue and Vytas have seen. I would be interested to hear what you think of the photos.
A and G# keys
UJ 1
UJ 2
LJ 1
LJ 2
I have taken a photo of the UJ serial number, below, and it is harder to see, but there could have been a D there too
UJ serial number
Chris
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-07-15 18:40
Your clarinet is a real deal. Obviously the "K" was stamped later to fix a factory error.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2007-07-15 18:43)
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2007-07-15 21:09
What a great thread - information here that could not be got anywhere else. Thanks for all your input.
Chris
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2007-07-15 22:24
Vytas,
Through your overhauling work, you have obviously seen a much wider variety of clarinets than I have. I would love to see some pictures of that "rogue" E&S you and susieray have described. I've never heard of anything like it. If you would e-mail me copies, I would be most grateful.
John,
I don't know that it's the explanation but Jack Linton told me pretty much the same story about moonlighting workers in the musical instrument district in Paris as you read.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2007-07-16 03:36
Thanks to Vytas (and susieray) I have now seen pictures of a clarinet with the E&S Master Model logo that appears identical to the Malerne 4-star Professional that I have owned for over 50 years. Incredible!
Best regards,
jnk
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