 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinets1
Date: 2007-07-09 21:12
hi all.
at the store i work for, we have a couple of the Backun barrels. they seem a little tight on the Leblanc clarinets, but are really, really tight--as in they won't even go on the tenon all of the way, and are really hard to get off--on anything else. is this a common occurance or is something wrong with these barrels? the clarinets they seem to have trouble with are the R13 level Buffets.
anyone shed some light on this?
JK
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-07-10 05:09
Leblanc tenons are slightly larger. All barrels I've tried on my leblanc clarinets are very very tight (won't go all the way on) as they were designed for R13 clarinets (slightly smaller tenon). I'm going to get one barrel that I really liked on my Buffet back home widened a bit to fit the leblanc.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-07-10 08:00
I have noticed a large variation in tenon reciever size of the bells and barrels. there are different size tenons in the world, but I never found any designation on the bells/barrels that let one know which is what.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-07-10 10:55
So you don't buy a Backun (or any other) barrel unless you KNOW that it is suitable for your model, or can be adjusted to be suitable.
A customer of mine just bought a Backun - I don't know from what source - which is very, very loose (diameter 0.5 mm too large) on her Buffet E13.
Post Edited (2007-07-10 11:11)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-07-10 13:36
Tenon sizes are very variable, as are socket sizes.
They do not begin life that way....it is a vagary of wood.
I once tested several NEW clarinets of the same model and year....and the barrels were not interchangeable. The bells were even more variable
So...when you buy a Boutique barrel, the maker might want tenon measurements, OR a spare barrel sent to him/her for sizing purposes.
That is the difference between "off the rack" and bespoken barrelling.
Disclaimer. I sell custom barrels. Boutique d Baril, yeah.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-07-10 13:42
Yeah, but it would be nice if he put something on the product to help the customer.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2007-07-10 14:43
Even with Ridenours. The Ivorlon barrels were tight on my 147s and Ariosos, but by sanding down the joint cork and using grease every time, they are useable. Even the center socket was very tight at first, but the newness of the cork suggested sanding, which worked. All ok now.
richard smith
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-07-10 17:17
Of the two Backunringless barrels that came with my Leblanc Cadenza, the 65 mm fits perfectly, but the 66 is a tad too tight. I will be sending it back for an adjustment in warranty. As it is, I actually had to place the left hand joint and 66 mm barrel in the refrigerator for a couple of hours to get them to come apart after a long band rehearsal the night before.
Jeff
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-07-11 03:55
"I actually had to place the left hand joint and 66 mm barrel in the refrigerator for a couple of hours to get them to come apart"
I see this as a clear example of poor workmanship. I understand that a Selmer barrel is not a Buffet barrel is not a Backun, but this is 2 barrels that came with one instrument- sold as a set. It would have only taken them 1 minute before thay closed the case at the factory to put the horn together to know that the pieces don't fit.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-07-11 05:28
Skygardener stated:
<<I see this as a clear example of poor workmanship. I understand that a Selmer barrel is not a Buffet barrel is not a Backun, but this is 2 barrels that came with one instrument- sold as a set. It would have only taken them 1 minute before thay closed the case at the factory to put the horn together to know that the pieces don't fit.>>
That sounds logical, but in the real world odd things can happen:
Scenario one:Same socket cutter (or CNC machine if you have one), same species of wood, two barrels made within a day of each other at the same humidity and temperature....and amazingly one is loose and one is tight on initial fitting.
OR:
Another scenario: Two identically made barrels, both fit nicely on day one....packed and ready to go. Both test nicely. One gets returned for being too tight. Measurement shows that it narrowed down by 0.005 inches, ie enough to make it tight.
And that is just the sockets....multiply the factors working in the bore and the nature of the sound, and add the expectations of the new owner.
Poor QC?
Nope....wood is a biological product that changes over time. There is enough randomness to the pattern of fibers to add a little touch of chaos (and stress). It is like a box of reeds, and we all KNOW how chaotic they are.
Welcome to my world.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: aminor
Date: 2007-07-11 12:46
I have the same problem with my R-13 bell, I can't get it off. Even with grease before, after playing it's impossible to get off. What should I do? My repair tech says that putting cork grease on the cork causes the corks to come off. WD40?
Thanks
kathleen
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Author: marcia
Date: 2007-07-11 20:46
>So you don't buy a Backun (or any other) barrel unless you KNOW that it >is suitable for your model, or can be adjusted to be suitable.
My own experience buying Backun products-Morrie adjusted whichever items in the equation (tenon, bore, cork) were required in order to make a good fit. This was all done while I waited, and I did not have to wait very long.
Marcia
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2007-07-11 21:01
Kathleen: find a tech that will replace the cork and have them also put paraffin wax on it. That stuff is great!
My Backun barrel was ordered specifically for my model of mouthpiece and clarinet. Works great for me, but lots of people can't even try it on their setup because the mouthpiece is too loose.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2007-07-12 01:06
aminor,
WD40? I think not.
In my experience, unless the corks are very thin to begin with it takes quite awhile for cork grease to work its way through and react with the glue so that the corks come off, particularly if the cork has been treated (as it should have been) with lanolin or paraffin before its first "greasing." But, if you're worried about this potential problem (or even if you're not), if you go to the "accessories" section of the sponsors of this board and click on "The Doctor's Products," you can find some cork lubricants that will not harm your corks.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-07-12 05:03
Kathleen, it sounds as if your problem is nothing to do with the cork.
Rather, the timber is jamming.
Get a technician to adjust the fit.
I agree that WD40 is a bad idea.
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2007-07-16 03:53
One quick check if you have a caliper set, is to measure the diameter in many rotations and see if it is oval...the more oval, the more 1) likely it will be tight and 2) likely that it will leak and cause playing problems. Largely depends on the wood, but is predicable if you read the wood correctly...
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