 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clariphant in Bb
Date: 2007-07-05 03:03
I'm thinking of buying a new barrel for my Greenline R13, and I'm wondering about whether or not I should plan on oiling it. The only wooden barrel I've used is the Buffet Chadash barrel. I never oiled it, and it never cracked. I used it as my main barrel for at least two years before I got a new mouthpiece that didn't tune well with it. Since that one didn't crack, it would seem that I don't need to oil barrels, but the barrels I'm looking at are Backun and Fobes barrels, both ringless. I see conflicting reports of metal rings both causing cracks and preventing them, so my questions: Should I plan on oiling one of these barrels if I get one, and, out of curiosity, would a rosewood barrel be more likely to crack?
By the way, I live in Pennsylvania, so the temperature does change a pretty good amount throughout the year, though, of course, I'm not playing outside with a wooden barrel.
Thanks for the help! (and sorry for taking so long asking a simple question...)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-07-05 03:22
Two--make that three-- schools of thought:
1.Oil often. (Proponents=Backun and others)
2.Never oil (Proponents=Hans Moennig, Tim Clark)
3.Oil socket areas very lightly when you percieve that the wood seems dry or when the rings --if any-- begin to loosen.
Of course there is a spectrum between 1. and 2. with #3 falling somewhere nearer to #2.
There are pros and cons including :"Oil dulls the sound and gunks up the pads." "I never oiled and never had a crack." "I always oil and never had a crack." "I oiled/did not oil...I humidified...and it still cracked." ad infinitum.
As a fellow Pennsylvania, I can state that it is crucial to HUMIDIFY the horn to about 45% in the winter. Avoid swings in temperature (leaving the horn in the trunk of the car overnight during December would be a no-no).
Oiling? Well, I am sure this thread will have plenty of replies to ponder.
edited for syntax
AS
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2007-07-05 03:23)
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Author: Clariphant in Bb
Date: 2007-07-05 04:52
Thanks very much for responding!
One question about humidifying:
Would using a device like a humistat (in the winter) be beneficial or detrimental? Obviously, the barrel will be humidified while in the case, but as soon as it is removed (and played in a heated, dry band room, practice room, etc.), it would start to lose moisture. Would that just cause extra expansion and shrinking (resulting in cracks), or would the barrel retain enough moisture while being played, provided that it is put away at the end of the practice session? Basically, would an in-case humidifier just amplify the gaining/losing of moisture? Also, could a humistat be harmful or encourage mold in my Greenline (plastic) instrument?
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2007-07-05 13:13
I called the tech at Buffet recently and his comment was never oil. I didn't ask him why.
Leonard
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-07-05 15:01
Humistats are great. I place several in the case during the winter. A small digital hygrometer shows that they maintain a 45% humidity.
Theories against oil include that oil displaces water, preventing natural humidification of the wood.
Theories for oiling state that oil replentishes loss of natural wood oils and prevents excessive absorption of water into the fibers.
I do use some oil lightly in select situations, but my experience with wood and its properties is more than casual.
Omar, care to chime in?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2007-07-05 15:42)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-07-05 15:28
maybe the Buffet guy thought you were talking about a Greenline barrel. I guess there is no need to oil Greenline equipment. For some reason the idea of putting a wood barrel on a Greenline seems strange to me.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-07-05 15:48
BobD...Correct, but from prior messages on the BB it seems that Greenline players have difficulty getting Greeline replacement barrels, so Clariphant is left with wood as his only option.
I think Omar is in Vancouver, so the oil mayvens are unavailable.
(Your call will be answered by the next available associate....)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-07-05 15:58
TKS, Alseg, the "spectrum" is great, makes us all think. I tend toward occasional oiling, believing that the [wood] horn's degredation due to condensed breath moisture [etc!] is progressively most severe in the barrel, less so in the U J, slight in the L J, so I limit any "heavier" oiling to the barrel and top of the U J, with inspection of the bell where cracking may also be a problem, as well. I think of the bore oils as a cleaning agent as well, and if I oil too heavily, I cloth/chamois swab out excess. Yes, Omar, we all want your view of this frequent question. Just my AM thots, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-07-05 19:25
From Francois Kloc:
I am agree with you when you say that you are not sure if oiling is a good things unless you have a really dried out instruments. Like I already said a new piece a wood doesn't need oil, when I say new piece a wood I mean from 1 to 6 years. Of course it depends where you are living and it is where I said that sometime the wood need some oil. If you notice that the inside is dried out you should put some oil. You have an easy way to check this, take you instrument and take out the barrel, then look at the tenon part you will see the thickness of the wood from outside to inside in one time, if the outside is dry it can be only the fact that some water staying and the acide you have on that give a kind of clear brown look, this doesn't need oil it is not dried out. If the center looks clear brown and that when you pass your nail and you feel that is rough, you should put some oil or have somebody do it. When I put oil on instrument I use a feather and I just put the top of the feather on my oil solution and I do one pass. Then I wait for two or three hours to see if the wood soak the oil, and if the color change. And I do this process until the wood look dark brown and shinny. I never put tons of oil because I don't want the oil go into the undercutting to not ruine the pads and facilitate dirt when I swab the instrument....
Francois Kloc Manager of Woodwinds North America Boosey & Hawkes Musical Instruments Inc.
____________________________________________________________
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Clariphant in Bb
Date: 2007-07-06 01:36
The reason I never oiled my Buffet Chadash barrel was because Buffet says their stuff doesn't need to be oiled. From what I read, their wood is dehydrated and then reoiled heavily, a process that apparently stabilizes the wood (I'm not an expert on this by any means...). The barrels I'm thinking of getting are rosewood, however, which I believe is less stable, and I have no way of knowing if Fobes and Backun stabilize their wood using a similar process. If Backun says to oil, and I end up getting a Backun barrel, I'd be hesitant to not oil at all. Right now, I'm liking the "oil lightly when it looks dry" school of though, because it probably can't cause any harm.
For those wondering why I'm looking for a wooden barrel for a Greenline instrument: I got the Greenline earlier, when I didn't feel mature enough to take up the task of maintaining a wooden horn. It turned out to be a great instrument, so I never felt like I needed to "upgrade" to a wooden horn. I am up to the task of maintaining wood now, so I'm looking at all my options in selecting a new barrel to help with some tuning issues (not just Fobes and Backun, though those happened to be the ones I named). I don't use the Greenline outside or anything. It's only used in environments that would be suitable for wooden horns anyway. I just got it for easy maintenance.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-07-06 02:24
There are many species of Rosewood, and they range from quite porous to dense. My personal favorite in the Rosewood category is Kingwood. It is, unfortunately, costly. Oboists like Kingwood. Loree and Yamaha have a Kingwood model.
Rosewoods are fairly stable in dimensions. Some burnish nicely and almost feel like plastic when the bore is finished. Other species remain rough.
Sealants help stabilize them. I know Morrie uses a sealant on some woods, and so do I. These sealants dissipate in time, so an occasional application of oil is warranted.
As for Grenadilla, I favor the Kloc approach as outlined by Vytas.
Over-oiling Cocobolo can cause the bore to narrow, but a limited dose does no harm.
Don't diss the Greenline. There are pros who use them. Going over to wood is not necessarily an upgrade, it is a lateral move.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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