 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DavidS
Date: 2007-06-25 19:29
Friends, I am in the market for a clip-on style mic for my clarinet. I am a sometime performer in small combos and klezmer groups. I find, especially with the klez work, that I can not even hear myself play in the lower register. And if I can't, the audience can't. I played last week for the first time with a mic on a stand. I found it rather awkward to have to stand in one place. I am a bit of a dancer while playing. So I am looking for some sort of clip on mic. I have seen some with two mics - one positioned over the upper tube and the other at the bell. But these are well out of my price range. I was looking at the AMT 350 - suggested by a W&B guy. Can be bought for about $200. I am just concerned that any mic positioned at the bell will over-amplify those notes at the expense of the ones up the horn. In any event, thanks for any suggestions. If any of you have experience with wireless rigs, kindly share.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2007-06-25 20:29
My recommendation is either to bite the bullet and buy the more expensive one, or to get used to standing in front of a mic stand. It's tough, I know, but I've been searching for alternatives and haven't found 'em yet. Ya gotta have microphones to "hear" both from the holes and the bell in order to sound the most like a clarinet, IMO.
Some folks say a mic drilled into the barrel works, but I've been too chicken to try that myself.
Katrina
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-25 20:41
Friend of mine has a contraption that looks like a singer's headworm microphone, attached between LJ and bell with a round or two of velcro. The flexible neck allows for optimal positioning of the mike.
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Ben
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2007-06-25 22:15
Attachment: bell419.jpg (219k)
I use an AKG 419 Mic on a lyre like gizmo that attaches right above the bell. I use to clip it on the standard yamaha bell and aim it up over the holes. I had wished it was a little longer. I use a Zebra wood backun bell, which of course was too big for the mic, Morrie then made the clip it positioned the mic a little higher up, ( for C clarinet the bell position is fine) evening out the sounds. The zebra wood bell make my amplifed rig .5 lighter than the standard Yamaha bell without the mic.
There are in my opinion a few problems with the amt mics
1. I don't think they sound as good as an akg419
2. unless you have one for every instrument they attach and are not really transferable at "doubling" speed. Mine can go from Bb, C, to Eb clarinet and on any sax I take on the gig
3. the bell mic make a standard peg kinda useless and The bell mic would make sense if you had tone and balance control for that mic specifially, mine was a few years old and didn't have one.
4. I was at Eddie Danials 60th birthday concert at the Oridium in NYC, and his failed to work! I have 300+ Simchas on this mic and my wireless version. and no problems
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with The Atonement, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performance
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-06-26 05:49
Doctors power barrel is the equivalent of a backun fatboy barrel in a sort of analogy. i think he's looking in regards to hearing himself play to ensure he's balanced with the group.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2007-06-26 12:23
analogy.C2thew wrote:> Doctors power barrel is the equivalent of a backun fatboy
> barrel in a sort of analogy.
Not even close!!! I'm a major fan of Dr. Omar! His C clarinet is a nice C clarinet for very little money, though I think it still needs alot of the same tweeking that my RC prestige C needed to be playable (by me). His mouthpiece cleaner. Great! Dr. Slick awesome. The power barrel, not so much. I've played it I didn't like what it did to the sound ,that's subjective. I recorded with into my Yamaha 4416, though some nice ribbon mics and there was no measurable increase in "volume". Now one could argue that a brighter tone will carry in a hall better, I don't believe that, but in a small combo or klezmer band you don't need anything that makes the clarinet "raspier"or brighter. There is a tendancy for electronics to do that anyway. When I play in a small band situation I tend to use the reeds that I have that produce a louder fundemental rather than alot of high partials.
What I find that the "fat boy" barrel does is allow to play at higher volume with the sound not changing as much. If I play my ringless cocoblo "anorexic" barrel, I find that for me to acheive the same tone color as on the "fat boy" i have to play it at a quieter volume. I would have used the "fat boy" on the solo book in the U.S.A.F.B, but on just about everything else I use a ringless cocobolo "anorexic". Only becuase, I don't routinely have to play as loud for as long as I used back in the army days. Believe it or not a 6 piece klezmer band isn't even close to the sound of a Special service band when it's crankin.
Oh, and I think Morrie needs a new name for the "fat boy", I'm starting to feel like those Geico cave men! How about "girth enhanced", "circumferance increased" "wide bodied" anything but "fat boy". How about something us width challanged people can embrace!
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with The Atonement, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performance
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Author: DavidS
Date: 2007-06-26 12:44
Thanks for the suggestions. Tom, I got one of Morrie's bells. It never occurred to me that the clip might not fit. It is, as you say, thicker that my R13 bell. I was thinking about taking one of those marching band lyres that I used in high school - the one that goes in the middle of the horn, and clamp the mic on that, positioning the mic essentially over the middle of the instrument. Thoughts?
Wow, 300 simchas with no failures - Baruch Hashem!
Zeit Gesunt
David
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-06-26 13:47
I use AMT. I think both AMT and AKG sound very good but I prefer AMT and this is why I bought it. Each also has some other advantages and disadvantages. There is also SD Systems which I liked it less than AMT or AKG. Tom is right about the AMT clip being annoying. I'll probably find some way to make a different clip which is faster. Maybe today I would buy AKG in spite of the things that I prefer about AMT.
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Author: coasten1
Date: 2007-06-29 19:33
I bought a Korg contact microphone which plugs into my tuner so I can see my pitch when I am playing in an ensemble. I never tried hooking this up to the mic input on a recording device to see how it sounds. The mic was only $12 at WWBW. Who knows, sometimes the rinky dink setups have the bigest payoffs.
Tony
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2007-07-02 10:37
yea but mostly they don't. believe me I tried the korg klip on. It sucked for clarinet tone. If you want it to sound like how you really sound you have to spend the money. Tom Puwalski
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2007-07-03 03:39
I agree with Tom.
The AKG is really the best option if you don't want to stand in front of a mike. There are some really good people who swear by them and not at them. Two good signs.
Throat tones can be weak if you use a single clip mike on your bell. The AKG or most other twin-mikes-on-a-boom will address this problem. Your service.
I don't necessarily endorse this, but barrel mikes, such as the one below, may have a place. This one looks pretty klunky, and you have to drill a hole in a barrel to use it. While I don't have any experience with this particular product, the model that I do have can amplify key click really well, so I need to keep my keywork in A-one condition to use it. These things have a similar problem to the single clip mike: full notes (full B and low E especially) are super loud. But a bell or mouthpiece pickup is great in high-noise situations, playing outdoors in windy conditions, of if you need a really hot feed for processing.
http://www.greek-turkish-clarinet.com/pt100.htm
Most of the time I use a moderately priced mike like a Shure Beta 58 on a stand, pointed between my hands, mounted on the edge of the sound cone coming out of my bell. You can put it on a mike stand, but I usually hang it on my Manhasset with "The Claw" from Latin Percussion. There are better microphones to use, but this is an economical solution, that sounds good enough for the dance events that I play, and will take a lot of bumping around.
In general, though, other people's comments have indicated that I sounded was the best when I was able to use a high-quality acoustic mike, and I have found this also to be the case listening to other musicians.
Regards
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-07-03 14:11
I agree about the fat boy barrels. They're great! And, what a clever idea about the lyre-type attachment for the mike. I have to play into a mic a lot on a concert stage and it's a fixed-in-place-below-the-bell thing that drives me nuts. But, I don't get a choice.
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2007-07-03 21:33
Brenda,
What model mike do you use?
Shure SM58 or Beta 58 are wide pattern mikes, that I try to place so that they pick up sound both coming out the bell and from between my hands.
The only drawback of "The Claw" is that, when optimally placed, the end sticks out in front of my stand, where it has been hit by dancers several times. Maybe Mr. Hacksaw should whack the end off.
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Author: AMT Microphones
Date: 2007-07-09 21:54
Hello from AMT Microphones. Hope your all enjoying what ever type of microphones your using as long as your using one..
Just to clear a few things up..
1) The AMT WS is the name of the double clarinet microphone that we manufacture. There's different versions of it, all of which the microphone remains the same. Depending on your application, you can choose from two different preamps, or our "W"ireless series for Shure Multi-channel beltpack transmitters.
****ALL AMT WS Microphone currently come with TWO Microphones suspended in the Iso-ring technology famous in our other models.
2) The WS is meant for the professional clarinet player looking for a pro mic setup that is made SPECIFICALLY for the instrument. We manufacture for the individual instruments. We do not adapt to an instrument. Bascially, we calculate what the instrument does and technically build for it.
3) If your looking for a clip on microphone that will fit different instruments, have a look at either the AMT System 1 or the AMT Roam 1 Elite which uses the AMT Universal clamp. www.appliedmic.com/universalclamp.asp This clamp will allow you fast access from one instrument to another. Buy purchasing extra universal clamps, you can move it quickly. The WS is intended to stay on one instrument...ala a primary soloist that does not need to double.
4) The gig that Eddie did at the Iridium..... They (whoever it was) STEPPED on the cables / preamp and broke it. It had nothing to do with the fault of the microphone.. Someone stepped on it... by the way... he has back-ups...
5) Certian AMT models currently are also going through a change.. Due to the fact that AMT HANDMAKES our microphones, we can change and update the systems as we need too.. Try to get another company to keep up with that... Being that we can do this, the WS later this year will be updated to a cable that will dis-connect. This will allow the WS microphone system to work with different preamps / or Wireless setups. This will all be done with the different cables / accessories. Example... an AMT WS cable will disconnect and you'll be able to purchase a seperate cable that will then connect to a Shure WIreless OR if you intend to record with it, it will connect to the AMT AP40 "floor" style preamp version in our "Studio" setup..
6) AMT Microphone are NOT disposable. They are not cheap either.. you'll have them for a long time and can up updated, changed, re-work, fixed if they are stepped on, etc etc etc.... How many of you have saved that money on a $200 mic, used it then put it in the garbage...??
7) Have a listen to these audio clips.. obviously reduced to mp3 quality, but I think you can get a good idea on the quality of an AMT WS..
http://www.appliedmicrophone.com/audio/byinstrument/Clarinet
Anyway.... I thought I might take a few mins to shed some light... I will not really be able to check back on this BBoard all the time. So PLEASE don't expect alot of replies from us. However, if you need to reach us, please contact us through the AMT website.. and mention this BB...
www.appliedmicrophone.com
I would be happy to answer any questions you might have. As time permits, i'll check back on the board.. because i'm sure there will be comments...
Take care..
Ron
www.appliedmicrophone.com
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2007-07-11 18:54
My brother made a barrel mic setup for the clarinetist of the group he's the sound technician of. He drilled a hole in an older, not-used-anymore barrel and inserted a mini-microphone (I'm not sure what mic). The only thing he did was calculate for every note where the 'knots' of the sound waves were located, and then chose the drill point where there weren't any.
It worked out extremely (surprisingly) well!
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Author: rgames
Date: 2007-07-13 01:07
Most woodwind instruments sound, well, "uncharacteristic" let's say, when the mic is very close to the instrument, regardless of how good the mic is. If you want that uncharacteristic sound (I'm not saying good or bad, just different) then, obviously, it's no problem. With the mic in the bell you lose way too much sheen and with the mic at the middle joint you hear way too much finger action and get way too much sheen.
It's common sense: how often do you listen to a live clarinetist with your ear stuck in his bell? (I want pictures...!)
When I record clarinet I stand the mic roughly 4 - 6 feet away between chest and head height and pointed down slightly, roughly aimed at the middle joint. That seems to give the most accurate sound.
Here's a thought: if you can't hear yourself playing, how about asking everyone else to back off? Maybe there are too many mics on stage...!
rgames
____________________________
Richard G. Ames
Composer - Arranger - Producer
www.rgamesmusic.com
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Author: merlin
Date: 2010-05-06 07:55
I have been use microphones and barrels made by Bass Poullath in CA for sometime now. I have found it the simplest and best system for live playing. He makes barrels from delrin and drills and taps them, then puts a nut and finally a barrel mounted pickup with its tube into the hole.
Sounds amazing, frees you up completely, gets the full pitch and dynamic range of the instrument, also there's no feedback.
I use it with a wireless system and believe me, it's great to have the freedom!
Here's a link to his store
http://gtc-music1.com/store/index.php
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2010-05-07 00:13
I agree with Merlin above. For years I used a Shure SM 57 in front of the bell for my Buffet C Albert clarinet performances. It does work for me and well. I said I'd never use a barrel mike. Well, I now use the Poullath barrel mike (in one of their barrels, NOT my original Buffet barrels). I also still use the Shure mike at the bell. The two together are fantastic. And, if I need to leave the stage and go on the dance floor with the dancers, the wireless barrel mike is perfectly adequate. The technology is finally catching up with the needs of the musician.
John
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2010-05-07 00:33
Thanks for these endorsements - I have been thinking of getting a Poullath mike for a while.
Merlin - which wireless system are you using?
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