 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2007-06-24 02:46
I'm writing to let you know about a fraudulent eBay auction. The auction has been listed many times, each from a different country, for the same set of Buffet Festival clarinets. The serial #s and information that are listed are:
BEGIN LISTING INFORMATION:
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Instrument: BC1139L-2, Serial Number: 565429
Instrument: BC1239L-2, Serial Number: 563984
Here is what Lisa's wrote about the Festival Clarinets:
Bb - "Beautiful full darker core with plenty of color; very flexible and fluid. This Bb has a wonderful shape of sound with lots of dimension. Very easy to play in all 3 registers, Db - high C pups at fff right out!"
A - "Has a lovely round full sound that is equal in voicing and color of sound as Bb 565429. I love the response and resonance of this A!"
The Festival set comes with 4 barrels: A650, A660, Bb650 and Bb660, swab cloth and two mouthpieces.
This set had all the pads changed and regulated and tested by Lisa Argiris. She works with a Technician and uses her great experience as a well known clarinet player to make sure the clarinets work perfect!!!
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This morning the country where the instruments were being sold from was listed as Great Britain. This evening they are listed as being sold from Italy. The serial #s is both auctions and from craigslist matched in all 3 instances. When I emailed to check this out, I got a strange cryptic email asking for my information to arrange for payment. This alarmed me as the auction then disappeared. Now, it's showing up again under auction# 140132149304.
I have called Lisa Argiris and she remembers selling a set of Festival clarinets to a gentleman and said that these same instruments have also appeared on craigslist in Chicago and now they're appearing on several auctions on eBay. She is checking into this as well but I thought it should be posted here. I thought that people would like to know about this situation so that noone gets stuck bidding and paying for instruments that they'll never see.
Thanks and I hope it helps someone!
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Author: sherman
Date: 2007-06-24 03:10
One supposes that it may be fraudulent,however the place to determine this would be "Safe Harbor" at Ebay
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2007-06-24 04:56
I have already reported both listings to Safe Harbor at eBay. Both listings have subsequently been removed.
Post Edited (2007-06-24 04:58)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-06-24 16:57
I saw those when they were listed. If they were the same set of Festivals (and I think they were although I didn't write down the serial nos.) the lister said he would take $1,000.00 for them, so no need to bid--just contact him directly. BIG ALARM!! No protection there from eBay and that's how unscrupulous people operate.
Also, since a set of Festivals is worth considerably more than $1,000.00 that's another big alert.
Sadly, fraudulent operators have increased in the past few years. It's a good idea to look again about some general rules for buying online:
1. If it's priced too low to be true, it's probably not true.
2. Check the seller. Is he/she a legitimate seller with whom you can speak directly? Will they give you a phone number or a real location where it would be possible to play-test the instrument? A legitimate seller will always make it possible for you to call or come by.
3. Check the feedback. I like to do business with people with at least a 99% positive. If not, read about it and find out why they don't have a 99% rating. Talk to them, maybe there are reasons that are legitimate--like fussy buyers that just like to give out negative feedback.
4. Always make sure they will take the instrument back if it arrives and is not as it was described.
5. Get references if possible.
Just a few guidelines. We can all get fooled from time to time. Care is needed in any venture online.
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2007-06-24 19:41
These are good guidelines Brenda and ones that I follow religiously. I thought that this was more than likely fraudulent which is why I pursued so that others weren't taken in on a bad deal. I just hope that it does prevent a fraudulent sale in the end.
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Author: William Hughes ★2017
Date: 2007-06-25 13:48
They are up again as of this morning for 600 GBP ($1200 US). (Item number: 290132798220). Buyer beware!
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-25 14:00
I wonder if the account owner actually knows what's being sold under his/her name - the selling history hints at not special interest in instruments...
--
Ben
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Author: Ed Granger
Date: 2007-06-25 14:27
tictactux wrote:
> I wonder if the account owner actually knows what's being sold
> under his/her name - the selling history hints at not special
> interest in instruments...
>
Doubtless the account owner does not know. This scam involves a hacked eBay account. That's why the monetary exchange has to happen off eBay.
Ed
Ed
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-06-25 15:15
What's even worse is that the same person selling the Festival Set is also selling other High Priced Items like a Vintage 74 Strat or a new Nikon Camera---and they all start at the same bid. It's amazing how people can just hack into all this and make it look so real.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-25 15:27
The root cause is that people can get away with that. There's not even a "report this auction" button...
--
Ben
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2007-06-25 16:07
There was also a Leblanc contrabass clarinet, paperclip model serial# 2284 that was being sold under the same scam with the same off-eBay addresses. LOOK OUT!!!
I have reported at least 2 auctions to eBay SafeHarbor and haven't heard anything from them at all. At this point, I'm not sure what to do. The online fraud thing is such a huge problem these days and if these genuine sellers are having their accounts hacked, then it really sucks.
I had my eBay account hacked about 9 months ago and I just notified eBay, changed the password and it cleared up very quickly. They were very efficient at removing the 42 fraudulent listings and very happy to work with me to resolve the problem.
Good luck to all!
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Author: Ed Granger
Date: 2007-06-25 16:39
A lot of times accounts get hacked because folks incautiously click into fraudulant emails to "update" information, or use their name as a password. Not always, though. I've reported lots of fraudulant listings, and eBay often doesn't respond to the person making the report. Doesn't mean they won't act on it. Problem is, they're so busy now chasing this kind of stuff with a limited staff that the item can be listed for days, or even close, before they have a chance to remove it. I've often seen one-day listings in cases where the scammer knows the listing is going to be reported fairly quickly, as with items that have already been listed and removed a bunch of times. Scammers only need one "bite" to make a big profit.
Ed
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-06-25 18:04
My husband's account was totally messed up and resulted in their cancelling it due to him answering a few of the questions sent by a phishing incident. He didn't, thank God, give out his social security or credit card number. But, it resulted in not being able to use his account. He had to open a new one and start all over. He never sells anything, just buys old cameras, but it was still a hassle.
When I listed a high-dollar instrument a few months back I had someone send me an email and say they had seen this listing a couple days ago for this same instrument. That would have been impossible because I always take my own photos that will identify to me they were taken by me. So, it couldn't have been the same instrument unless they stole my eBay item page. Apparently that's what they were trying to do. I notified the safe harbor deal on eBay and ended the auction and eBay got it cleared up.
In my case they hadn't stolen my account, they had just stolen the auction for my item--word for word. The safe harbor people said to always look and see if it says http or https in the "go" line. People have been able to sneak in fraudulent auction pages that come up while you're surfing and you don't know you've actually gone to a phoney website.
Mark Charette is an IT guy. Is there any way to prevent this happening? I guess we just need to be very, very careful these days.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-06-25 18:21
Brenda Siewert wrote:
> Mark Charette is an IT guy. Is there any way to prevent this
> happening?
Not really. Phishing and other scams work and there have been times that I've almost been taken in, like a URL that looked something like
http://ebay.com .badguy.com/
where the spaces were so so many that the ending wasn't visible in the browser.
Post Edited (2007-06-25 18:21)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-25 18:41
Plus, please please switch on the "status bar" (view/status bar in IE), so you can see at the window bottom what's really hiding behind eg http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/list.html?f=1.
When in doubt, right-click on a link, select "copy shortcut", open some editor such as notepad, paste and inspect the contents there.
Also, be aware that some try to use ambiguous characters (like "|" instead of "l" or the cyrillic "a" which looks just like the latin (=our) "a" but is not the same at all). These so-called homograph attacks are difficult to detect.
Most important of all, use your brain. Who on earth would sell a matching set of fine clarinets for a fixed price that's simply ridiculous?
--
Ben
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Author: Ed Granger
Date: 2007-06-25 19:08
"Most important of all, use your brain. Who on earth would sell a matching set of fine clarinets for a fixed price that's simply ridiculous?"
That's really the best advice, especially given how cheesily many of these listings are written. And yet people do take the bait - people who really knew better. Scammers rely on folks being too embarassed to reveal that they've been conned. When they do interview people who knew better, they usually say they smelled a rat, but just couldn't resist thinking they were getting a super deal on something they really, really wanted. It's almost like brain chemicals were being released or something. Heaven help us when the scammer's get really sophisticated. We all know people who have gotten truly amazing deals on something where the pics were bad and the description was poorly written or sparse, but the buyer took a shot in the dark, or was expert enough to recognize the true identity of the item. I'm afraid we're already reaching the point where scammers will mimic this type of "opportunity" with an item subject line that just says "old saxophone" and then a blurry pic of "grandad's" old sax, with a few, barely discernable, carefully faked Selmer Mark VI features and an appropriate serial number - or better yet, the appropriate SN and a few other "details" being given only in response to a "question from a prospective buyer" at the bottom of the listing. "I checked the mouthpiece, and it says "chedarille" or something like to that - it's pretty worn." Only takes two fooled "expert" bargain hunter's to get the bidding started.
I must have been a counterfeiter in another life ...
Ed
Post Edited (2007-06-25 19:17)
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2007-06-26 00:59
Another thing one can do is to watermark the photos that you take for any item that you're selling with something like "for sale by userxxx". THis will at least correlate the photos with a seller's user ID.
Regarding phishing scams and what not, I make it a policy to never click on a link in an email unless it comes from a trusted friend. In the case of business, i.e. communications from a bank or credit card company, I always manually type in the url for that company and then proceed with doing my business or updates. This ensures that I am always going to the website of the company that I choose.
I, too, being a former IT person, was taken in, just as Mark was, by certain emails and this is what caused me to change my policy. With me doing the typing, it's just safer.
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2007-06-30 01:54
Here we go again... item #s
250137777104 - for the set of Festivals serial #565429 and #563984
250137776781 - for the Leblanc contrabass serial #2248
Same deal with these. Fraudulent listings that have been reported to the auction site. BEWARE!!
Post Edited (2007-06-30 01:57)
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-06-30 03:27
Just think smart. feel your instincts, and never answer any questions linked through an email. ALWAYS go directly to the source of the problem. if it's a suspicious ebay message, check through the main ebay page first and verify.
if your still falling for those "THESE MOVIE TICKETS ARE YOURS!" emails, then i suggest you stay away from the temptation of opening those
also, there are "bots" that dig through websites searching for people's email addresses and create spoof emails without ever having a human behind it. make sure your email is off sites that easily phish your information out.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: pzen
Date: 2007-06-30 23:47
I had a similar experience. Was looking at a 'new' r13 in Oregon. They would only do $500 on paypal, so I contacted them about picking it up and paying cash. The instrument disappears several days later and I was never able to get a hold of the seller. DON"T BY ANYTHING that does not come with a PAYPAL guarantee of at least $2,000.
Peace, love and understanding
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2007-07-01 01:53
I think some people may have some misunderstandings about Paypal's buyer protection. The maximum amount covered isn't determined by the seller. Rather, it's $2000 if the auction meets certain criteria (seller's feedback greater than 50, at least 98% positive feedback, seller is in one of about 40 "good" countries, etc.). Otherwise it's $200... period. It does not go above $2000. See http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/ua/USUA-outside#pbp-policy .
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Author: Dano
Date: 2007-07-03 00:40
I always instantly delete any email from ebay and check the "my messages" page of my account. If I remember correctly, ebay will communicate with you through My Messages. There is no need to open email from ebay or paypal sent to your internet account, is there?
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-07-07 01:40
The guy is at it again: 270142756937
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-07-07 01:59
Another thing about legitimate E-mail from eBay or PayPal: They will always refer to you by your eBay account name if the message is legit. If not, it will start something like "Dear eBay member:" I make sure that I display the mail with all the headers and then forward it to spoof@ebay.com or spoof@paypal.com, and delete the message immediately afterward.
Jeff
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