 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-06-20 19:48
Please comment if you have had similar findings
I've got an Uebel basset horn in to do some work on (Made In GDR, so that's an idea of when it was made - straight wooden bell with cranked floorspike), and the owner is having tuning problems with it - with the original plastic Uebel mouthpiece it plays over a quarter tone flat over the entire range.
The original mouthpiece bore is 16.6mm at it's narrowest and 16.9mm at it's widest (ie. it's oval) and the crook bore is 17mm as expected (the bore of the instrument has narrowed to 16.8mm).
I tried it with my Yamaha German Bb mouthpiece (around 15.3mm bore) and this brought it up to pitch evenly across the range, as does my Vandoren M15. The crook socket is 22.5mm which is ideal for any Bb mouthpiece.
The Uebel mouthpiece length is 88mm in total (tenon is 17mm) and the Yamaha one is 91.4mm (tenon is 18mm).
So I recommended the player to either use her own Peter Eaton Bb mouthpiece, or get a German Bb mouthpiece going from what a difference these mouthpieces could make to the tuning.
And then I compared the Uebel with my old Selmer basset horn. Although the Uebel has the larger bore, it feels way too resistant in comparison to my Selmer - and my Selmer hasn't been worked on much since I've had it and I've only changed two pads on mine, so mine isn't exactly in top notch form (though one day it will be when I go to town on it).
Is this the nature of the beast that is a Uebel basset horn? Are they more resistant than French (or other) basset horns? It has leather pads in it and isn't airtight - neither is my Selmer by any means, but my Selmer plays much better generally (the Uebel owner said my Selmer feels almost like her bass clarinet in it's tone, projection and playability).
Will altering (widening the diameter or lengthening the tube) the speaker bush have a profound effect on it's playability in the upper register? I will have to sort it all out first before doing anything to the speaker bush because as it stands, there are a lot of more pressing issues to deal with before I do that, and I want it all fully airtight first so I can rule out leaks.
Another thing I noticed was the lack of flat springs - I took the side Eb/Bb key off and a bent needle spring (cut from piano wire by the looks of things) was left in the spring slot - instead of tapping out screw holes in the side keys, they've just drilled a blind hole and shoved a needle spring bent into an L shape with the free end curved as a flat spring would normally be. It's doing the job a flat spring would do, but they have really cut corners here.
If it was in for the full works I'd probably tap all the flat spring screw holes out and fit flat springs as would be the norm. Now is that normal for Uebel to have done back then? Considering they have gone through the trouble of fitting locking screws in the pillars (to keep the point screws in place), why would they have skimped on properly fitted flat springs?
Incidentally, between the three of us (as she brought another basset horn player with her), we had no problems using each other's mouthpieces to try out each other's bassets to see what worked and what was better.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2007-06-20 19:55)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-06-25 00:23
Well, I've repadded the entire top joint with cork pads, as well as the bottom joint rings and cross B/F# pad and seated all the remaining leather pads, though I'll have to wait until the morning before putting the Trabant of basset horns through it's paces.
But at least it's now fully airtight and regulated, and a quick check with a tuner shows it plays at 440Hz easily and evenly with a Selmer C85 120 Bb mouthpiece (which I use on my Selmer basset horn).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 2007-06-25 10:48
Hello,
I own a slightly different Uebel basset horn - with (some too big) metal bell. My one is built at the period, the instruments were only signed with "B&S" (Blech- und Signalinstrumente VEB - brass wind and signal instrumens - no word about woodwind instruments in the companies name).
A similar instrument you described is owned by Thomas Graß (more exactly by his wife), Arnsberg, Germany, where the last basset horn meeting took place.
The round wire springs instead of flat springs were standard by this manufacurer in GDR. You need to develop a special technique to reassemble the instruments to prevent those springs to turn avay into other directions while you're mounting the keys - or you repleace them with flat springs.
At least my basset horn requires flat pads (2 mm thickness, not 3 mm) - where I put my instrument for the last overhaul they had to order them first.
Arnold (the basset hornist)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-06-25 11:34
I've had to make the cork pads very thin so they're sitting evenly in the pad cup (so there's an equal amount of pad showing all round).
The trickiest thing with these bent needle springs was getting the trill keys back in, and making sure the springs ran into their own slots (as they're free to rotate in the spring holes).
This one is Boehm system, and has three thumb keys for D,Db and C - the D and Db key touches are probably the same pieces from the Adler/Moennig bassoon RH 1 trill key.
Back in the '80s these basset horns were sold in the UK by Bill Lewington, though there is a Rudall Carte sticker inside the case lid, and the sticky patch where it used to be stuck above the case handle on the outside - Weltklang saxes also had the Rudall Carte case stickers, so I assume B&H may have also been involved with the import of B&S as they were with Amati (Corton/Lafleur) instruments. Rudall Carte was only a name, and not a makers at that point in time - I'm sure Messrs. Rudall and Carte would have been turning in their graves at the idea of Taiwanese flutes bearing their names (as I imagine Henri and Antoine Selmer are at having their name on Chinese instruments right now).
Some B&S instruments (Moennig/Adler/Sonora) were distributed in the UK by Vincent Bach.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2007-06-25 11:57
Did you all see the Uebel metal bass clarinet recently sold on eBay? Item 120133952610.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-06-25 14:03
I wondered if they ever made aluminium clarinets - I've worked on their 'New Metal' flutes and piccolos, but that's the first aluminium-bodied clarinet of any kind I've seen.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: John25
Date: 2007-06-25 17:10
Chris, you mention the high resistance. The Royal Northern College used to have 2 Uebel basset-horns. I tried one and couldn't profuce a note - not even open G, and this was after 20 years of playing the Mozart "Requiem" and K.361 on my own instrument.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-06-25 19:29
What basset have you got?
Comparing my old ring key Selmer basset horn with the Uebel, the tonehole placements are very different - the Selmer has a more even (and more acoustically correct) layout of it's toneholes, plus the fact that they are relatively large.
The Uebel's toneholes aren't as evenly laid out as the Selmer, and are relatively small in diameter so the sound of the Uebel is much more dark and veiled than the Selmer even though I have set it up with wide ventings.
As for the resistance, the Uebel has freed up considerably since it is now a lot more airtight than it was, though it's still nowhere as free blowing as my Selmer, and the Uebel's tone is less even across the range, though not in a drastic way. The Uebel's altissimo register is much more in tune than my Selmer (which I have to use special fingerings for some notes, but they're not exactly important as I'd assume the chances of anything written above altissimo F are rare), as are the low notes descending to low C.
The bore on my Selmer measures 15.9mm at the middle tenon.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2007-06-25 20:03)
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