 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2007-06-22 08:44
Hi all. I took my new Festivals (hand picked by Michele Arrignon in Paris) to a tech today to get a few minor adjustments made to ring heights and pads and little set-up issues like that. He drew my attention to the fact that on my A clarinet, the long B was very stuffy and generally weak compared with all notes around it (C C# D) and it makes it quite difficult when going from throat notes over the break to B.
He made sure any major air leaks were fixed up although he did say that for a new instrument that Buffet had done a pretty ordinary job with sealing the top joint. He said "it's ok but could be better". He then suggested that we try experimenting with a replacement register tube as he said it has a large effect on the note B.
When I got home, I got out my RC Prestige A clarinet and tried experimenting with swapping parts. I put the Prestige Bell on my new Festival and that made no difference. I then tried swapping the top joints so I had the Prestige top joint on the new Festival lower joint. This seemed to fix the problem. The long B was clear and full sounding.
Does this suggest that:
a) The register vent tube from my Prestige A could work well if put into the Festival? or
b) The top joint of the new Festival A needs re-sealing etc? or
c) both?
Hope this is not to confusing. I have a history of complicated problems like this :P
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2007-06-22 09:54
I would try the register vent first, just because it seems simpler. How does that register vent sound through the rest of the range?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-06-22 10:00
If all notes other than B are absolutely fine, then it is unlikely a leak in the upper joint since then you would have a problem with other long notes like C.
It is possible that a different register tube would solve/help your problem. I heard that sometimes this is done especially on Buffet A clarinets to fix some problems (not necessarily the same one you have).
Have you tried to check sound/reponse/intonation on other notes when using the RC upper joint (including low notes)? A different reigster tube will affect the throat Bb. Maybe the different register tube plus the different bore or tone holes (if they are different) will help the problem but create a different one. I don't know if there is any way to know but to try.
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Author: ChrisArcand
Date: 2007-06-22 12:09
Before you start swapping the parts themselves, take a look at the amount of venting your current register key actually does. Does your throat Bb also sound overly stuffy? Maybe your key doesn't vent enough.
CA
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Author: donald
Date: 2007-06-22 12:54
i played a Festival A (ex Brad Behn) before swapping last year to a 1970s RC A
Guy Chadash had installed a smaller bore/shorter length register tube, but in fact the instrument played much much better for me when a "standard" register tube was installed. My tech in Wellington told me that the Festival A should have the same reg tube as a regular R 13 according to the repair specs from Buffet. Certainly, the instrument played better with the "standard reg tube".
sorry if this is not helpful, but this was my experience with a Festival A
donald
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Author: William
Date: 2007-06-22 15:00
You probably already know this, but your "long" A will naturally have less presence because the sound is coming out of the bell and not the side vents. Try placing your bell over a table and play A4-B4-C5 and listen to hear if they sound more even. What may sound uneven to us as performers sounds much smoother to the audience because of the "homoginizing" effect distance has on air waves. One other "solution" I might suggest is to rotate your bell by quarters of an inch and mark the different positions that those notes sounds most even (without the table). You will find a certain position that sounds best--mark it for future assembly reference. (advice from Ben Armato's book, "Perfecta Reed...and Beyond")
BTW--Ben Armato, better known as inventor of the Reed Wizard.
Post Edited (2007-06-22 15:02)
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-06-22 15:31
get a backun bell. clears up the long B really well.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-06-22 16:52
I had the same sort of problem, and a new register tube fixed it up. Also, making sure the register vent key opened up pretty wide, and that the cork pad on that key was rounded with no sharp edges to impede airflow.
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2007-06-23 00:26
Thanks everyone. I'll get the register tubes swapped over on Tuesday. The register key opens wide enough already and he did sand off any sharp edges. Failing this I guess I'll look at backun bells.
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-06-23 03:43
Or, you could try another stock Buffet bell. If you try new bells, it's best to do it at a festival or a shop where you can try many. They vary quite a bit, but you can probably find one you like if you can try a bunch. Usually, they are good for sprucing up an older instrument. Seems odd that a new instrument would need a different bell. Well, it won't hurt to try.
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2007-06-23 04:04
Hmm I'm pretty positive it's nothing to do with the bell. It has the be the register tube or something leaking in the top joint - which he said wasn't leak proofed very well by Buffet for a new professional instrument. It's really frustrating because it is such a beautiful instrument everywhere else in the range and one bung note spoils it. But hopefully it can be fixed.
Is proofed even a word?
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Author: donald
Date: 2007-06-23 06:31
also try rotating the bell to see if it plays better set in a different position. This concept of finding the "sweet spot" by rotating bell/barrel is an old tradition, and seems to genuinely have an effect on the the clarinet. It is my belief that this is mainly through getting the joints as concentric as possible.
Try this- put the barrel on the top joint, and rotate it while looking up the bore from the middle joint. You will most likely see that the joint is not exactly concentric and that as you rotate is it may (or may not) have a position where it is evenly lined up. While you usually can't actually see the bell joint from looking down the bore of the bottom joint, it is reasonable to imagine that a similar lack of precision may be evident.
re Backun bells- just this afternoon i spent about 35min swapping bells on and off my R13 B flat (recording myself on mini disk and listening back). I was comparing a Backun Bell that i have on "long term borrow" with my stock R13 bell. You'd expect the long B to be the note most greatly influenced by a different bell, but this was not the case. The Backun bell certainly made a difference (and had some qualities i liked) but if the problem was solved by putting your RC top joint on, that suggests it's nothing to do with the bell.
Given that the problem disappeared when you used your RC top joint, i'd vote for a problem with a leaky pad in the Festival top joint, esp as in theory the RC and Festival should have the same register tube (at least as far as my experience goes). I imagine that the more "pressure/resistance" in the bore, the more significant a small leak will be. Middle line B is the most resistant note, so the one most affected by a leak... maybe?
donald
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Author: woodwind650
Date: 2007-06-23 06:46
before i'd swap the actual register tube, i'd try changing the pad on the register key. often times, changing the pad/cork pad to a Valentino pad will make all the difference. i had to do this to my A clarinet and it worked like a charm.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-06-24 19:53
Or why not remove the register key and make sure the vent is clear.
Bob Draznik
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2007-06-25 10:43
Was the result with the top joint festival and the lower joint RC also a stuffy B ??
You didn't mention that test !
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2007-07-04 08:55
Well I've been to 3 techs and each of them told me the bottom 2 pads were leaking...each of them has replaced the pads and the most recent one tried swapping the register tube from the RC Prestige A into the new Festival A and I think it somewhat helped, but there is still a funny buzz type quality to the long B. So I'm wondering if its something that will go away as the instrument is broken in. If not, I'm going to end up selling a brand new instrument and keeping my RC Prestige which doesn't have this problem.
By the way, the tech measured the dimensions of the 2 tubes, and he said one appeared bigger on the outside, but was smaller on the inside. Interesting..
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Author: Ray
Date: 2007-07-04 15:23
"there is still a funny buzz type quality to the long B"
This bugged me for a long time on my Bb R13. Turned out to be a bad pad on the Eb/Ab key. This pad had loose skin that vibrated.
Another possibility is that the spring on the Eb/Ab key is a little too weak and the whole key will vibrate and leak when playing a loud middle line B.
None of this explains why putting the RC top joint on your new Festival fixed the problem, but these are real problems with the effects you are experiencing.
Best,
Ray
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-07-04 16:11
> So I'm wondering if its something that will
> go away as the instrument is broken in.
Very unlikely.
> I've been to 3 techs and each of them told me the bottom
> 2 pads were leaking...each of them has replaced the pads
Hmm... that's too bad. I have one more idea which I think wasn't mentioned already - did you try playing the B with the one of the top two right side trill keys (each of them by itself), instead of the the register key (leave it closed)? If not, try it (and report back if you can).
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Author: Mr.President
Date: 2007-07-05 23:15
You know I had similar issues with my A clarinet. Let's face it, buffet doesn't put together a clarinet the way it should but atleast they give us the components for great clarinets.
I took my horn to the brannens in chicago. They completely re-did the horn and fixed every problem I had. I couldn't believe it was the same horn.
atleast give them a call, their reputation for quality is well known.
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Author: kenb
Date: 2007-07-06 00:54
Brannens won't ship outside the US, or they wouldn't two years ago when I made enquiries (from Australia) - something about the customs paperwork being too much of a hassle.
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