 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: DAVE
Date: 2007-06-12 21:39
How was this reed different from the current V12 or the Black/White Masters?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-06-13 01:30
I believe the historical perspective of good quality cane but the cane used in premium reeds today is not of bad quality and even the more dense versions from Argentina or the finest from the Var Region of France are not that drastically different then used in top notch reeds today. We gathered over 50 different specimens of wild and domestic cane from all over the world with special qualities to sequence plant DNA in the process of producing our genetically enhanced Arundo Donax Musicalis and we never came across a "super" cane in the lot. Some were more dense than others but not dramatically different. There must be other factors involved including cut that made them so special. It is possible that there exists a hidden valley in Tibet or somewhere where the Morre cane still grows?
Disclaimer (plant patent Arundo Donax Musicalis is a commercial product)
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2007-06-13 02:26
Having been fortunate enough to have played on Morre reeds for a number of years, there definitely was something VERY different about them.
Whether it was the source of the cane (which was never revealed), the aging/curing process, the dimensions of the cut, or a combination of all of the above, a great Morre reed responded and played like nothing currently available.
I still have a very limited cache of Morre reeds and occasionally play one. I wrote a thread about my impressions, here:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=105129&t=105103
...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bcl1dso
Date: 2007-06-13 02:35
I have a question. I make my own reeds, and when I make them, I make them so the the tip of the reed measure about 13.1mm. This gives the reed a sweeter more "French" sound, however I have tried making them thinner, about 12.75, and to me, it does not sound as good. So my question is, does a Morre "12.5" reed only sound as good as it can on a Kaspar mouthpiece? Were Kaspar's "made" for the Morre reeds? I play on a Pyne mouthpiece, do Pyne generally have a wider beak than Kaspars did?
Thanks
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mnorswor
Date: 2007-06-13 04:18
It's an interesting thing to think about the width of the tip of the reed. With almost all of the French cut reeds I see today, I've always noticed that the width of the tip of the reed is usually wider the the tip of the mouthpiece. I've used more narrow reeds for years and always felt that I had better results than with typical French cut reeds (V-12, FOF, etc).
Also, when going through my vintage mouthpieces recently (particularly my Kaspar Ciceros and Bettoneys) I noticed that the more narrow reeds seemed to work much better with these mouthpieces.
I get a greater dynamic range, more flexibility and have to use less pressure in the embochure when I use reeds that are more narrow. This result is the same on my vintage Kaspars, Cheds and my modern mouthpieces as well.
It was also interesting to me when Vandoren copied the V12, they may have taken into account the thickness of the blank but NOT the width of the tip, thus resulting in reeds that were "oversized" in comparison to what many players were used to.
These are just observations and thoughts and should not be taken as fact. It's just one player presenting his thoughts and entering into what could prove to be a very interesting discussion. Thanks!!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: doublej
Date: 2007-06-13 12:20
I have always heard that there was a big difference between the sixties morres and the later ones. Would someone who played both be willing to share what the difference(s) were. I have always wondered that. I have been able to play on the later ones but have not come across the earlier ones which were quite enjoyable.
jeff
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2007-06-13 14:13
The rings in trees vary depending on climactic conditions and in general wood with narrower, tighter rings is stronger (more elastic?) than that with wider rings. Is the cane used for reeds (today -yesterday?) grown to maturity in one year or multiple years? Is cane with narrower tubes better than cane with bigger diameter tubes?? Is Silica content important? There's probably a lot about cane and reeds most of us don't know.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rtmyth
Date: 2007-06-13 14:39
I notice a difference in tip width of reeds of the same make and strength, and also in width of mouthpiece lips, again of the same make and model. As for reed contours, Ridenour custom reeds, which I liked immensely, were noticeably different, even on casual observation , from Vandoren Select and Rue 56. I have experimented with means to readily stiffen the sweet spot. Nothing dramatic to report yet.
richard smith
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-06-13 14:58
Via Digital caliper:
V12 13.06 width at tip x 3.12 thickness at butt x.37 tip
VD Trad12.75 x 2.58 x.31
French cut Morre 13.01 x2.97 x.31 (likely from late seventies, since box has 12/81 penciled on it perhaps by the store clerk or original purchaser)
I do not have a German cut Morre to measure.
So, from the limited measurements(n=1 of each), the French Morre and V12
share similar tip width, The V12 has the bedunk butt, and the Trad and Morre share the same tip thickness.
Conclusion..Morre cane is likely more dense (allows for the thinner tip?)*than V12, with a thickness intermediate between V12 and Traditional.
* Drawing conclusion that the cane is more dense based upon tip measurements is totally unscientific....this is a presumption on my part. Do NOT take this as truth. Besides, when we speak of density in a reed, do we mean mass/volume or do we REALLY mean resilience at a given thickness?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2007-06-13 15:05)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DAVE
Date: 2007-06-13 17:59
This query was spawned by reading Greg Smith's posts about the German cut reed that Marcellus used. I was specifically curious how that particular reed was or was not similar to the German cut reeds available today. This all came about from my running out of V12s and using some white masters that I normally use for E flat. The white masters were surprisingly nice on my mouthpiece; I played them yesterday in a rehearsal and concert.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RodRubber
Date: 2007-06-14 04:28
alseg,
did you measure those reeds at the very butt of the reed? or perhaps from the part of the bark just behind where the vamp starts?
evan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mnorswor
Date: 2007-06-14 05:51
So, in other words... Vandoren seems to have duplicated the French cut Morre. Meaning, they copied the wrong type reed!!!! It's my understanding that the German cuts were the most preferred and used by Marcellus and others.
Hmmmm............
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-06-14 13:31
Rod Rubber....I casually measured near end of butt, but not at very end. I did this just in passing. I used a digital caliper, but would suggest a true thickness micrometer for the tip. Keep in mind, my population consisted of one random reed of each type. N=1. ie NOT statistically significant enough for a true "tale of the tape."
I will leave more precise measurements of a larger number to others.
eg....where butt bark is shaved, shaved area at file cut, vamp, shape of heart, etc.
Maybe someone with the time to do a profile with a PerfectaReed or a laser profile.
Maybe someone has a friend at CSI named Grissom who can spend huge tax dollars on a multiphasic analysis.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: doublej
Date: 2007-06-14 14:03
I have about 20 morres that I have measured in about fifty places. I can say from that limited sample and about that number of v12s that there are some similarities but the design of the morres is still significantly different. I have just moved and all my reed imformation is packed away I will try to find it and post the differences. IF I remember correctly the morre tip is thinner but immediately behind the tip in the heart there is significantly more material and then along the rails there is less material but i could be remembering things wrong.
jeff
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
