 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-09 13:30
Okay, I did some pictures today of my new Marigaux. They're on my web site. (The images can be freely used as long as the copyright watermark is retained and due credit is given)
Enjoy.
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Ben
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2007-06-09 13:41
Refined construction and details. Impressive. Register key like the TR147.
richard smith
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-06-09 13:55
I like the oboe-esque bell!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-06-09 15:44
key work looks definitely alot more reformed and designed ergonomically better. roller keys are awesome. second that on the picture quality. how does a marigaux clarinet play though?
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-09 16:47
> how does a marigaux clarinet play though?
Nice tone, not too much resistance, well in tune, easier over the break than others I tried (didn't have a pro instrument before, though). Keywork fits my hands like a glove, that's what I'm currently enjoying most.
Per the picture quality - thanks for that. The camera is a humble Olympus Camedia C-220 (2 mpix), if anyone's interested. A tripod is essential for pictures like these. Frames and watermarks were done on my own tool.
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Ben
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-10 07:58
It is new in the sense that it has never been sold before.
It is old in the sense that it gathered dust and fingerprints in a shop for about four or five years.
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Ben
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-06-10 11:20
Nice job,Ben...and the website and its contents too. I wonder who copied who on the register key.
Bob Draznik
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-06-10 11:44
First of all, nice clarinet!
Also, what is a tripod (what you said was essential)?
Anyway here have a Tosca? If I remember correct the register key on the (Buffet) Tosca is a bit similar (which was one of the main things I disliked about it).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-06-10 12:25
A tripod is the three-legged stand that holds a camera solid.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-10 12:57
> A tripod is the three-legged stand that holds a camera solid.
...and use the camera's self-timer in order to keep it absolutely still while exposing.
Per the register key - the Symphonie shows up on their 2001 web site (the WayBackMachine doesn't get any further back than this). The TR147 is mentioned on this BBoard also in 2001. Considering that the development of a clarinet takes quite some time, I think that at least two people independently had the same idea.
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Ben
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-06-10 13:04
don't the rossi's also have an offset register key? Btw- it's something saxes have had for ages, so it's not really a 'new' idea.
is there a website for this company? all I can seem to find is Marigaux Oboes.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-10 13:10
Marigaux gave up their clarinet lines somewhen in 2003. :-(
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Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-06-10 13:27
"don't the rossi's also have an offset register key? Btw- it's something saxes have had for ages, so it's not really a 'new' idea."
It may be standard on saxes due to the placement of the pillars and the need for the right amount of leverage to operate the automatic 8ve mechanism (and ergonomic design), but as clarinets are more conservative in their design with a certain degree of symmetry of key pieces being the norm, and an assymetrical speaker key touch is a radical thing considering what clarinets normally have - both French and German alike.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-06-10 13:54
Lots of interesting key refinements. Note the angled touch pieces on the top two trill keys, which, depending on your finger length, may make their use more secure.
The rollers for the right little finger are on most German system clarinets and, as I recall, are on the Wurlitzer Boehms and reform Boehms.
The lower keys for the right little finger are rounded quite a bit on the outer edges. I'd have to check carefully to make sure my finger wouldn't miss the key when I have to slide down -- for example, for (in the low register) G#-F#-E-G#. For G#-E-F#-G#, where I have to slide diagonally from the G# key to the E key, I worry even more, not to mention possible interference from the rollers, which make the two upper keys longer and squarer and this make the slide longer. I've never had trouble sliding without the rollers. A little "nose oil" solves any problems.
The F#/C# pad is closed by an arm. This may replace the crow's foot, but seems more likely to be a mechanism to give a pure middle B/C# trill and facilitate passages in sharp keys by giving the Patent action we find on all but the lowest level German instruments. The disadvantage is that you can't play E/B with just the E/B key, but have to put down the F/C key too.
Mazzeo put a similar mechanism on his kitchen sink Personal Model, but with a reversed action that preserved the one-finger E/B, at the cost of some very laborate (and heavy) keywork.
I tried a Marigaux many years ago. The company representative said that all the top French Conservatory players had switched, but I doubt that. He particularly noted that, as Ben says, the tone match over the register break was particularly good. It came at a price, though. Rather than make the throat register more colorful, they seemed to have dulled everything else down to match.
This is also what (IMHO) Tom Ridenour did to get the very even scales on the Leblanc Opus and Selmer Signature. This doesn't work for the way I play, with a fairly open mouthpiece and soft reed. It's better for the way Tom plays, with a close mouthpiece and stiff reed.
Ken Shaw
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-10 14:34
> The F#/C# pad is closed by an arm. This may replace the crow's foot, but
> seems more likely to be a mechanism to give a pure middle B/C# trill and
> facilitate passages in sharp keys by giving the Patent action we find on all
> but the lowest level German instruments. The disadvantage is that you can't
> play E/B with just the E/B key, but have to put down the F/C key too.
The E/B key is connected with the F/C arm, and the F/C key is connected with the F#/C# arm. (The F#/C# pad is held closed by a spring)
The operation is the same as with a crow's foot, but you get adjustability on the C pad action (screw on F#/C# arm) and on the synchronicity of E/B and F/C pads (screw on F/C arm). I suspect the arms are more impervious to bending as they directly operate on the cups and not on the touchpieces.
(A detail not visible in the pictures is that the LH levers are weakly sprung open, eliminating the need for nylon pins or magnets, without having a rattly keywork)
--
Ben
Post Edited (2007-06-10 14:36)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-06-10 17:39
> The disadvantage is that you can't play E/B with just
> the E/B key, but have to put down the F/C key too.
I'm looking at the pictures of the keys and I really don't see why it wouldn't be possible to play the B without pressing the C (or maybe I misunderstood and you are not talking about the Marigaux in the pictures). It looks to me from the pictures that it would be possible.
> A detail not visible in the pictures is that the LH levers
> are weakly sprung open, eliminating the need for nylon
> pins or magnets, without having a rattly keywork
The left hand levers on my clarinet (not Mariguax) doesn't have pins, (afaik) doesn't have magnets, doesn't have springs, and it isn't rattly. The reason (from what I can tell) is the keys are designed so the proportion of the weight on each side of the pivot prevents the rattle. Of course each of these methods has its own advantages and disadvantages...
Post Edited (2007-06-10 17:48)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-10 17:56
> The left hand levers on my clarinet (not Mariguax) doesn't have pins, (afaik)
> doesn't have magnets, doesn't have springs, and it isn't rattly.
"rattly" was probably an exaggeration. However, the weight alone won't help you much when performing aboard the ISS. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
I just mentioned it because I've never seen it done this way. But what do I know.
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Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-06-10 18:12
I used to (lightly) reverse spring the LH F/C lever on my clarinets to eliminate any double action that can occur between it and the F/C key, it didn't add much weight to the RH F/C action and as the LH lever was reverse sprung it didn't need the correct (and precise) thickness of cork under the foot (which compresses in time causing double action in it).
As with most (if not all) Marigaux instruments, having a load of adjusting screws, and usually more than most makes is always an advantage - my 930 cor has around 30 of them - and I still think they could add some more!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-06-11 05:42
Ben, I just mentioned this method to add to the list of possibilities you wrote, and like I said every way has its advantages and disadvantages.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-06-11 10:46
I've just found a (UK) pricelist from 1993, so I can put the RS Symphony into perspective with the other pro clarinets of the time (A clarinets in brackets):
Leblanc LL - £1069 (£1197)
Yamaha CX - £1099 (£1199)
Buffet R13 - £1250 (£1250)
Marigaux RS Symphony - £1295 (£1395)
Leblanc Infinite - £1430 (£1566)
Buffet Jazz Festival - £1445
Leblanc LX2000 - £1459 (£1612)
Howarth S1 - £1475 (£1385)
Leblanc Concerto - £1500 (£1652)
Yamaha CS/AE - £1699 (£1799)
Yamaha SE - £1719 (£1819)
Selmer 10SII - £1773 (£1956)
Selmer Recital £1780 (£2340)
Selmer 10G - £1788 (£1922)
Buffet Prestige (R13/RC/DG/Festival) - £1975 (£1975)
Leblanc Opus - £2124 - (£2315)
Buffet Elite - £2400 (£2700)
Also listed are the Marigaux S200 clarinets (NP - nickel plate, SP - silver plate):
Yamaha YCL-34II (NP) - £619
Buffet E11 (NP) - £620 (A - £620)
Yamaha YCL-34IIS (SP) - £689
Noblet Artist 145 (NP) - £694 (A - £818)
Marigaux S200 (NP) - £729
Leblanc Esprit (NP) - £821 (A - £905)
Buffet E13 (NP) - £825 (A - £825)
Marigaux S200 (SP) - £845
Selmer Prologue - £880
Buffet C12 - £1150
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2007-06-11 11:48)
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