 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinetklutz
Date: 2007-06-06 22:18
Hi,
I'm a music student at my high school and I've taken clarinet in grade 9 and grade 10 music....so we've basically done books 1 and 2 and partly 3....from this I assume I'm in grade 3 clarinet?
Now, next year, I will be joining senior band, so I will have to have plenty of practice. Of course, I will have to tune up my clarinet skills this upcoming summer. I am planning to buy a clarinet, since the rental clarinets have given me a hard time (repairs and pad problems, cork problems, and a whole lot).
Please note that we constantly play repertoire pieces in our class, and I am playing 1st clarinet. I can also reach the high high notes (e.g. the high C [with ledger lines]).....just letting you know to help me with my buying decision.
Now, I've researched at the music stores in the area that I live in and I was wondering if you would be able to help me decide on a good one, since I really love the clarinet and will be willing to play the clarinet on my own personal time later in my life, such as university, etc.
Buffet BC2540 <---- I am assuming the B12 clarinet
Armstrong 4001
Selmer CL301
Vito 7212
Amati ACL201II
Jupiter JUP631NMT
Selmer 1400B
Vito 7212PC
Nobel 14041
Yamaha YCL250
Selmer CL601
Also, I have heard about mouthpieces. Like should I buy the set and replace the mouthpiece? Do mouthpieces really influence the sound quality that the clarinet produces? Will I have to change reed strengths if I change the mouthpiece?
Thanks for your help,
Daniel
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Author: marshall
Date: 2007-06-06 22:42
If it were me, since you're looking to maybe play in your free time in the future, I'd be looking into getting something more along the lines of a buffet E11 or a more advanced instrument than a student model...especially if you're playing first in your top band in the school.
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Author: clarinetklutz
Date: 2007-06-06 23:05
Sorry, my mistake....I forgot to make things clear...eeek!!
Like I am playing first clarinet in gr 10 repertoire (level 2/3 clarinet??)
Also, I'm avoiding all wood clarinets, due to the possibility of the "cracking".
I am planning to spend anywhere between $300-$800 (MAX) on a clarinet, since I will be working in the summer to also fund for the trip I am going on next year, which is France.
----
Also to add, I saw one of the senior band pieces and it was the Aylesford Variations (sp?)....I'm not sure what level clarinet this is....can someone please tell me? and also which clarinet would fit this piece...what I mean is if I was playing a piece that was a bit more difficult than this piece, what clarinet would be best matched for me?
...Thanks! =)
-Daniel
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-06-06 23:20
>Also, I'm avoiding all wood clarinets, due to the possibility of the "cracking".
thats really limiting yourself.
save yourself a lot of grief - get a good quality wood horn and a decent mouthpiece.
a clarinet doesnt fit a specifiic piece of music. you fit the clarinet to a specific musician, within the musician's skill level and budget.
others here will disagree, some quite strongly; but if you were my student i'd advise you to get an E11 if on a budget, otherwise an R13.
spend that $300 on private lessons - that will produce the best results for the $. get a good private teacher to assist you selecting an instrument within your budget - but - $300 won't get you a decent instrument. $300 gets you a mouthpiece, ligature, a few boxes of reeds a couple of etude books.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-06-06 23:32
If you SERIOUSLY don't want wood, get a Lyrique by Tom Ridenour. Google him. There's alot of praise on this board about his clarinets. Yes mouthpieces influence your sound very much so, 2nd to your embouchure. Get a decent mouthpiece, and since I assume you don't want to spend much, a Vandoren would suit you. Try some out. I recommend the 5RV Lyre. Also, reeds influence your sound too. Reeds strengths also vary for mouthpieces. Long facing/close tip=harder, short facing closed tip=softer. Do alot of searching on this board. I've learned alot on here. Vandoren and Gonzalez to me seem the best brands out there in terms of good cane/consistency. But if you DO buy the Lyrique, don't worry they have a great mouthpiece. I've tried the Ridenour MT mouthpieces but found them a little too low pitched for me. I like to stay sharp. What do you play on now? It might be worth your time just to take it to the shop and have a nice service done on it. That helps too. Clarinets will always need repairs. I send mine to the shop every 4 months or so for a check up just to make sure things are fine, make sure no pads are bad, etc etc. It's like cars.
PS--Wood clarinets don't crack as often as people think they do. My barrel cracked but it was because I neglected to have the socket reamed out and while swabbing I forced it off and on..cracking in the middle of an audition. With good care, clarinets should resist cracking more.
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Author: clarinetklutz
Date: 2007-06-06 23:56
Hi Melvin,
Thanks for your informative post.
Right now, I'm using Mitchell Lurie 2.5 strength. As for the mouthpieces, do they let you try them out in the store, or do you have to buy them and then there's no way back of returning? I have a store near me that sells Vandorens and V12s as well. Which one is better? One time I tried a strength 3 (during my first year) and I had difficulty playing on the instrument, but my embouchure might have improved during this year since I noticed an improvement in my style of playing, so should I step up to a 3 or stay as 2.5 if I'm buying the Vandorens?
>What do you play on now?
Hmmm....I'd rather say IMHO, a very old, cheap, Buffet clarinet. I did a serial number search, and Buffet gave me back this info:
Brand : Buffet Crampon
Instrument : BC 1134.NI
Serial number : **removed**
Year of manufacturing : 25/11/1987
Maybe that's the reason I must get a clarinet this summer lol.
===
Also, since I don't have a credit card and my parents don't prefer ordering stuff online or by the phone, but buying in-person, I will be limited to the clarinets I stated above. Which one do you think will be better and should I try all of them out before buying one?
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Author: clariniano
Date: 2007-06-06 23:59
Usually I recommend that students at or above the RCM Grade 4 level own at least an intermediate level instrument. With the E11s, some of them being very sharp, I would go with a teacher to try them out. In fact I have a 10 year old clarinet student, just did his Grade 2 clarinet exam on Monday, he's only been playing about a year, and has studied with me for 7 months, I think he did really well (and my students consistently get high 80s and 90s on RCM exams) who is going to be upgrading his instrument. (and no, I did not force him--mom asked me about upgrading--his family's musically inclined (mom plays piano to a Grade 10 standard), and his entire family plays at least one instrument.
I find that the level of clarinetists varies widely, in some schools the typically principal clarinet is playing around a Grade 6 RCM level (without private lessons), in others, it's more like a Grade 2 level, though the average high school age principal clarinetist who doesn't take private lessons is playing at about a Grade 4 RCM level.
BTW, are you in Toronto too?
Meri
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-06-07 02:03
"Also, since I don't have a credit card and my parents don't prefer ordering stuff online or by the phone, but buying in-person, I will be limited to the clarinets I stated above."
Owned. That's really going to limit your choices to the surrounding area, which at some times is limited. buying a clarinet is like searching for a girlfriend. you don't want to marry the girl next door because she's "coveinant." open a debit card with washington mutual, which will open the doors for the internet. or order by phone. that works too.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: clarinetklutz
Date: 2007-06-07 02:07
Hi Meri,
Nope, I live in Ottawa....4 hour drive....well that's if my dad goes over the speed limits, but that's another story lol
So I researched on this forum and there have been several posts saying that the B12 is similar to the E11, except what the clarinet's made of. I might end up buying the B12, but I have to try them out in the summer.
I am also planning to buy a new mouthpiece, so should I buy the mouthpiece first, and then try it on the instruments I want, or is the procedure/correct order different? Do stores usually allow you to try out new mouthpieces?
I am really confused about the ligatures. If you would help me out, that would be greatly appreciated. The store near me has these ligatures. If you can explain to me how the ligature affects playing, that would help me out.
Bonade Inverted Clarinet Ligature
Selmer Paris Clarinet Ligature
Gigliotti Clarinet Ligature & Cap Set
Vandoren Optimum Clarinet Ligature
Also, for the clarinet mpcs, how do I choose one. The store told me that they had different sizes and facings. If you could help me clear this up that would be great.
Thanks,
Daniel
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-06-07 02:31
Daniel,
Stores should let you try out mouthpieces. My store lets me try reeds out too. They should be kind enough, and you be kind too ;], and they should let you try out stuff. Get a new mouthpiece first IMO. It's a cheaper solution and is usually a quick fix. A new horn won't play at its best without a new mouthpiece. Out of all those ligatures, the Bonade Inverted IMO is the best, then the Vandoren. The Bonade needs to be bent to work at 100%, others elaborate please. Reed vibrations affect sound. Ligatures interfere with vibrations.
Facings affect sound, articulation, response, intonation, etc. A Vandoren 5RV Lyre is a good middle of the road mouthpiece at about 95US in my store. It should play fne on a VD 3 reed.
Yamaha makes GREAT clarinets, I like the YCL450[wood, silver plated keys] over the YCL250[not wood, student model] and the Buffet E11. And I did a search, a BC 1134 is a C12, others confirm. A C12 is a good wooden clarinet, a Buffet E12 is compatible. If you have a C12, get a new mpc and get a good service/overhaul on it. It should be like new.
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Author: kuteclar
Date: 2007-06-07 04:49
I've seen many commercials for the Visa card that you put cash onto as you need it - is this an option?
Your store should let you try mouthpieces - I use a Vandoren M15 or M13 Lyre - they have more closed tips and are longer so I can use harder reeds. If you are used to something quite open, you will use a softer reed - so your reed strength has a lot to do with the mouthpiece. I've heard tons good about the Fobes Debut and Hite Premiere - and both come at a quite inexpensive cost....maybe someone can comment if these would be an option. But - buying a mouthpiece from one of the dealers mentioned on this board, you will save a ton! For example: I bought a Vandoren B40Lyre from a local music store at $89; It sells for $57.95 on prowind.
I also used some sort of intermediate Yamaha as my first instrument - I think it was $500 new back in 1991 or so. It was a very nice clarinet at a reasonable price. (I deeply regret not keeping it)
How about an Evette or Evette & Schaeffer? Those older intermediate Buffets seem to sell for cheap when you can find them (usually on 'you know where'). I have also seen many Buffet Internationals (sometimes still listed as C13) selling in your price range. Maybe a Noblet?
I also wouldn't worry about cracking - well, I would, but I wouldn't decide not to buy wood for this reason. Keep it humidified, swabbed out, oiled by a professional once in awhile, ou of extreme temps and it should be ok.
If you order your reeds online, you usually save a lot of money, also. And a Bonade ligature is a great inexpensive ligature($15). Or try a plastic Luyben ($8).
Check the classifieds section on this board for clarinets - so I've been told, also!
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Author: Clarinet4hire
Date: 2007-06-07 05:54
"hey have more closed tips and are longer so I can use harder reeds. If you are used to something quite open, you will use a softer reed"
I need to correct this as this statement is exactly opposite of what is true.
Close tips=softer reeds
Medium tip=medium reeds
Open tips= harder reeds
When a reed is matched to a mouthpce correctly, it will blow easy and maintain pitch-providing there are no leakes in the rest of the horn, you are using the right inner diameter bore in your barrel, and the rest of the instrument is in good playing condition, and you are using a good embachure.
All of those variables vary from person to person, and inst. to inst. This is where a good teacher will help you to learn. If you have to use a lot of jaw pressure to sound good, you are probably playing on a reed that is too soft or hard for your particular mouthpiece.
BTW- The M13 lyrie is the same mouthpiece that Burt Hara plays with Minnesota. You will be hard pressed to find anyone who can match his abilities. Unfortunately, all similar mouthpieces do not play the same. You have to try them first. The M 13 lyrie has a medium open tip, and Burt Hara uses a Vandoren blue box 3.5 on his equipment. If it doesn't play well with a 3-3.5, I'd look for another M13 Lyrie. The regular M13 is a mediochre mouthpiece, but the lyrie is the way to go. Burt uses a simple inverted Bonade ligature with his.
If you can find a good Gigliotti mouthpiece, go with it They are worth their weight in gold, but use the Gigliotti ligature. The P facing is what I use, but it has an open tip- takes a 4-4.5 and blows very easy-no jaw pressure(or biting) at all. Nice dark sound. Not up close mind you, up close it sounds not so good, but walk 4-5 feet away and it gets nice and rich and full. The further away you go, the better you sound!
That is my experience.
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2007-06-07 06:12
"Close tips=softer reeds
...Open tips= harder reeds"
I tend to disagree with this statement. As a mouthpiece is more open, there is more space that the reed must bend through. Therefore, in order to maintain similar jaw pressure to that of a more closed facing, you must play softer reeds. If what you said was correct, would a player not completely close off a closed facing with a soft reed if they are used to a hard reed on an open tip?
Also, I agree that a wood clarinet would most likely be the best option for you when you upgrade. As a poster said above, you already play on a C12, which should be made of wood (if I am not mistaken). To go down to a student model clarinet would in fact be a downgrade from what you have. If you instrument is in bad shape, perhaps an overhaul is in order (as others have mentioned). An overhaul would cost less than buying a new instrument, and would most likely wield an exceptional result.
I wish you luck on your equiptment search!
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
Post Edited (2007-06-07 23:27)
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Author: musiciandave
Date: 2007-06-07 12:26
I would wonder how the Lyrique compares to a Forte Clarinet. I liked the Forte MUCH better than the Arioso, so wondering which synthetic plays better.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2007-06-07 15:21
I suggest a Ridenour TR147 as low priced. Remember, no matter what make or model, or price, no two instruments are alike. . One must try many instruments to find a fine one, as a rule. Same applies to mpcs. There are dozens of different ligatures available. I like the Luyben, having tried many brands.
richard smith
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-06-07 15:48
Since you live in Ontario, I would recommend contacting these folks directly: http://www.garyarmstrong.com/
They are a real, bricks-and-mortar store with exscellent service and folks who know what they are talking about. They are also a sponsor of this bulletin board.
A second option is the Forte clarinet, which is sold through Omar Henderson's web site <www.doctorsprod.com> . I don't know if he has any dealers near you, but even if not, he has a 21 day trial period, with a liberal return policy. Plus, the instrument is available for US$400 plus shipping. And that includes a good Gennusa mouthpiece!
Here is more info on this clarinet: http://www.doctorsprod.com/forte.html Many folks here are happy customers, and Doc Henderson is a great person to deal with. I buy accessories from him regularly, for both me and my daughter. If nothing else, he has a toll free number you can call for further information. Give him a try. Doc Henderson is also a sponsor here.
Jeff
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-06-07 16:12
Clarinet4hire wrote:
"Close tips=softer reeds
Medium tip=medium reeds
Open tips= harder reeds".
"That is my experience".
__________________________________________
![[huh]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie11.gif) ?
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2007-06-07 17:24)
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2007-06-07 16:33
------
Close tips=softer reeds
Medium tip=medium reeds
Open tips= harder reeds
-----
I think you mean the other way around.
Steve
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-06-07 16:54
E1Blufer is right about the reeds and mouthpiece tips. I also agree about getting a good overhaul. Also, we probably all recommend studying with a private teacher first, and getting good advice from them while buying new equipment. The store should let you try different mouthpieces without buying. Some charge a restocking/sanitation fee, depends on the store. Of the ligatures you mentioned, the Gigliotti is probably the most bang for the buck. The Bonades are too inconsistent and often need to be bent in order to play right. The Vandoren Optimum is nice but a bit expensive, and plays similarly to the Gigliotti which costs somewhat less. The Gigliotti is plastic and may be more durable as well. Someone recommended to me to put metal screws in the plastic Gigliotti lig for stability, but I have not tried that yet.
For clarinets, get an E11 or better if the overhaul on your old one isn't satisfactory.
Have fun and good luck.
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Author: D
Date: 2007-06-07 17:18
ML 2.5 is quite a soft reed. Unless the mouthpiece you have now is extremely open it sounds like you are used to playing with quite low resistance. This will affect you when trying new mouthpieces.
Have an explore on the Vandoren website. There is a good chart which shows how different reeds are recommended for different tip openings of mouthpiece. I am not saying definitely buy Vandoren, but it is a good place to look for examples of mp/reed combos which usually work.
Also keep in mind that the ML 2.5 and the VD 2.5 are not the same strength. VD is normally harder so don't be surprised that you couldn't play a no. 3 last year. That is a very big jump. Try and ML 3 or a VD 2.5 if you feel you want a harder reed. If you have an open mouthpiece you probably don't need one, or if you do then only this one step is really appropriate. Harder is not necessarily better, the most important thing is that the equipment matches.
V12 verses V trad. verses V56. Depends on how it fits your mouthpiece. Just have to experiment I am afraid. Same with other reed types.
On another 'note'. You mentioned that you can get up to C.
Here is an exercise which helped me easily get the next set of notes.
Play E (top space) and then without moving anything else including your mouth, remove your left hand index finger. This gives you C#.
Now play F natural. remove left hand index, gives you D. You may need to put down the right hand little finger on the D# key for tuning - depends on your clarinet.
Now try G natural. Remove the left hand index and this gives you E.
For a neighbour alienating top A, keep the same fingering as E and think 'high' while increasing the airspeed and thinking about making the space in your mouth which it is coming through smaller.
Have fun!
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Author: Clarinet4hire
Date: 2007-06-07 17:42
Boy was I wrong! My apologies to Kuteclar.
Bring it on people- I'm ready for CROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My experience is with the HS *, B45, M13 Lyrie, Gigliotti p facing, and the Gigliotti A-4.
Altt that I've been perfoming with for the last 11 years is mostly the Gigliotti p facing, and the M13 Lyrie. So to save some face, I can tell you these two mouthpieces are wonderful.
I'll have to get my Gigliotti measured. I forget what it is, but I do know the M13 Lyrie is a medium open tip, and takes a medium reed, such as a 3-3.5 .
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Author: kuteclar
Date: 2007-06-07 20:03
I believe the M13 Lyre is a medium closed tip at 102-, medium long facing. Yes, this is what Burt uses. The Vandorn site says to use 3.5-5; usually 3.5 or 4 is plenty suffiecient for this mouthpiece. M15 is very similar in my experiences. I bit more veiled and round sound; the M13 Lyre allows you great expression and control.
Let's see if I can get a link to work: http://www.vandoren.com/en/index.html Go in the front door, go to products on the top left line, Bb clarinet mouthpieces and then click on the chart that shows up. This should give you a good start towards knowing which reeds for the tip/length of a mouthpiece.
http://www.donmack.com/SelmerClarinets/SelmerClarinetMouthpieceInfo.asp Here is a similar chart for Selmer mouthpieces showing the openings.
I can't find the my usual reed chart, but here is one that has a few of the major brands: http://www.legere.com/strength_charts.htm
Also, you said you were playing on a Buffet B12, which is plastic, not wood. Someone said C12, which would be a completely (well, still Buffet!) different instrument...although a good choice!
Post Edited (2007-06-07 20:04)
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Author: clarinetklutz
Date: 2007-06-08 04:29
After researching for quite a while, I'm deciding on buying the Leblanc Rapsodie after finding out my store also offers that clarinet.
Any wood clarinet care/treatment tips I could make use of, and once I get the clarinet, do I play it like 30 mins a day, then add to that time, or something along those lines?
Thanks for your contributions! =)
Daniel
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Author: clarinetklutz
Date: 2007-06-09 22:16
Hi Melvin,
On the link you gave me, it said that all wood instruments should be played every day, and if you skip a day, you have to re-break-in the clarinet again. Is this true?
Also, do you have to have a case cover?
Lastly, for the humidifiers and the temp. guages, if I buy a humidifier, is that good enough?
Thanks
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-06-09 23:14
I didn't properly break mine in but I disagree with the "restarting if you miss a day." Just make sure when you start playing off, do it in increments and absolutely make sure to swab. If you clarinet swells and you can't take any joints off, take it to the shop, they can fix it. I didn't take mine to the shop and in the middle of an audition my barrel cracked as I was swabbing right before. I don't have a case cover for me, I don't believe it makes that big of a difference as long as you have a good case and you store your clarinet in a good place. My clarinet doesn't have a case cover and is just fine. And humidifiers, I believe you only really need them if your climate is just wacky. If I was in Arizona or somewhere like that I would get one. But if you really want to be safe, you could always leave a small piece of a damp sponge in your case. But I believe the most important part of having a new wooden clarinet is to swab it out. Make sure your swab is a swab that doesn't get stuck around the register tube. My clarinet came with a Selmer Series 10 swab that just continually got stuck with my register tube so I got a new silk one. When you do get your new clarinet, go on and get a new mouthpiece. The ones that come with the Rapsodie aren't all that great. Try a Vandoren 5RV Lyre with Vandoren 3-3.5.
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Author: clarinetklutz
Date: 2007-06-09 23:34
Melvin,
For the swabbing, if the clarinet comes with those felt swabs, would the cloth ones be better since felt can't absorb as much?
Also, that website says that I should swab every 10 mins, is 2 hours like too long?
Should I get a humifier if I'm in Ottawa?.....It's a bit wet here and it is dry in the winter....what's your opinion?
I'm confused about the part about the register tube thing.....is it the metal thing that you're talking about when you look inside the clarinet?
Thanks,
Daniel
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Author: marshall
Date: 2007-06-10 00:31
After I started using a silk swab I never used anything else. I still have and use the first silk swap I started using in the seventh grade. They absorb a lot more than those felt swabs and last longer too. They also dry a lot faster so dont smell after a year of use.
I swab once every hour (give or take fifteen-twenty minutes) and that seems fine to me. Once every ten minutes would be irritating in my opinion. I think you should be ok as long as you dont let the instrument sit with moisture condensed in it.
I have a bunch of relatives in Canada and we always road trip up there, stopping in major cities along the way. The weather isn't too different there than it is here. I just use a dampit or a damp sponge.
Yes...the register tube is the metal thing you see when you look inside the upper joint.
I have a case cover...but I really only use it to get from point A to point B. I use it more as something to carry your instrument over your shoulder with than something to protect my instruments (though...there are a few situations where I think my clarinet may have been damaged in the winter weather had I not been using the bag).
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-06-10 00:55
I personally don't use the felt swabs. I use them when I clean my plastic clarinet(when I dip it into water). The silk swabs absorb better than microfiber in my opinion too. They're alot easier to drop through as well. The register tube is the metal thing you see when you look inside the clarinet. Make sure your swab isn't too big to go through it. If you do get a humidifier, just make sure you use it properly. Don't buy the things that saxophone players use alot. they're little rods that are fuzzy and they put it in the instrument after they're done. It's just as worse, if not worse then not swabbing. It's okay to use them after you swab, but not to be used in place of swabbing.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-06-10 00:55
I agree about thge silk swab. THey are fantastic. Order a "Black Legend" from the Doctor's Products. They never jan in the upper joint nesr the register tube, like my old cloth ones did.
While every ten minutes for swabbing might be extreme, it would not be a bad idea to swab more frequently than what might be considered normal, even moreso during a break-in period for a new wood clarinet.
I will disagree a little on not needing a case humidifier. I live in the Detroit area, too, and in the winter, the dry air actually causes the wood in my old Master Model barrel to shrink enough that the ring comes loose. A case himidifier is a safew way to go, and doesn't hurt anythin g. Use it during the winter months, at least.
Jeff
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Author: marshall
Date: 2007-06-10 01:03
On the topic of the "Black Legend" swab fromt the Doctors Products...the other great thing about them is the rubber coating on the weight at the end. A lot of silk swabs...or swabs in general...have an exposed piece of plastic that can scratch your instrument and affect its playing.
Another thing you could consider to keep humidity at a good level in your case is to store your swab by laying it over the instrument. It sounds disgusting at first...but it works. Not only does it increase humidity in your case, it will also make your swab last longer (since you arent wadding it up and packing it into one of those storage compartments and keeping it there 95% of the time). Of course...this is another place where the rubber coated weight is quite important.
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