 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: KimSlava
Date: 2007-06-06 14:23
Hi. I think this is the first time I have posted in the Clarinet BBoard.
I acquired a wooden Penzel-Mueller clarinet that is shorter than a Bb clarinet, it is 20 1/4 inches (514 mm?) from top of barrel to bottom of bell.
The keywork is pretty much standard Boehm but with a couple variations. I have pictures on my website http://doctorsax.biz/pm_c_clar.htm
It came with what I think is a Bb mouthpiece. The mouthpiece barely fits in the barrel. When I finger a C and play it, the tuner shows it to be a flattish B. I am thinking if I had the right mouthpiece it would show up as a C.
9031-C is scratched on the instrument as shown in the pictures. At first I thought this was just some sort of school stock number, but now I am wondering if it was like that from the factory and the 'C' refers to the key.
Can anyone help me:
- verify the key of this instrument
- the type of keywork
- did Penzel-Mueller make their own clarinets or did someone make this for P-M
- and finally, where the heck do I find a 'C' mouthpiece (assuming it is a C clarinet).
Thanks, Kim
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-06-06 15:37
There is not anything unusual about the key mechanism on this clarinet, with the exception of the left hand third finger ring. Everything else is the same as normal on a Boehm system clarinet. Yes, the register key vent is in a different place on the upper joint, but it is still at approximately the same "altitude" if you will. Looking at he overall length and the short tuning barrel, it looks like it could be a C clarinet.
Jeff
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-06-06 16:04
Having had some long-time familiarity with PM cls [but not their C], I'd guess its a C alright, pitched to 435 +/-, dating before 1920 [when my Full Boehm was prob. made]. The extra ring, making it a 17/7 cl, is prob. for the "fork Eb/Bb", popular then, does it have a small pad right above it ?[haven't looked at your pics, but will] which is needed to tune the fork notes. Fun? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-06-06 16:09
I think the number, which is obviously scratched by hand rather than stamped, is a school stock number.
A clarinet in C would be considerably shorter, as would the barrel.
Playing C should give concert Bb. Since it sounds as a "flattish B," the instrument is almost certainly at high pitch (A-452). Unfortunately, high pitch instruments can't be converted to A-440. It will be fun to play, but you couldn't use it in a group.
Ken Shaw
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Author: KimSlava
Date: 2007-06-06 16:35
There is such a thing as a 'C' mouthpiece, yes?
I would assume it is shorter and has less internal volume than a Bb mpc.
Playing with a C mpc. should bring the pitch up substantially, yes?
I was surprised that a Bb mpc. would fit into the barrel, which it did, albeit extremely snugly.
Are there modern C mpcs. for sale, or only vintage?
Thanks.
Kim at Doctor Sax
www.doctorsax.biz
608-297-9744
doctor_sax@hotmail.com
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-06-06 16:52
(Disclaimer - I am seller of the Forte' Bb and C clarinets and a custom Gennusa "C" clarinet mouthpiece)
There are specialty mouthpieces for "C" clarinets but not that much different than a normal Bb mouthpiece, the internal volume is only slightly smaller with some chamber modifications and many people use their normal Bb mouthpiece playing most models of "C" clarinets. Some Bb mouthpieces, while perfect for the Bb clarinet, can cause intonation issues with the "C" clarinets so it is good to experiment with different Bb mouthpieces to get one that works best for you or buy a dedicated "C" mouthpiece for your particular horn. Various "C" clarinets have different tuning issues and are not nearly as consistent in bore characteristics and tone hole placement as Bb clarinets and some practice and experimentation are needed to get the altissimo notes readily in tune on all brands of "C" clarinets (I belong to the 100 "C" clarinet club).
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
Post Edited (2007-06-06 16:56)
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2007-06-06 18:01
My low-pitch C-clarinet is about 20.25" without the mouthpiece so I think you are correct in your assumption that you have a C-clarinet, rather than a high-pitch Bb. For comparison, a low-pitch Bb clarinet would be over 23" without the mouthpiece. While the hand-etched number was almost certainly a school stock number, the C could still have been included as a designation of the key.
My C came with two barrels. With the shorter one, which accomodates a Bb mouthpiece nicely, it is slightly less than 20.25". With the longer one, which I think is designed to accomodate a C mouthpiece (but have never tested because I've never been able to find a true C mouthpiece), it is slightly over 20.25". Since yours appears to be a bit over 20.25", finding a mouthpiece may prove challenging. Absent finding a dedicated C mouthpiece, you obviously want to look for one of the Bb's whose characteristic is to raise pitch/play a bit sharp. With your mouthpiece, I am surprised your clarinet registered as flat as it did. Are you sure the tuner was your tuner set at 440? Did you try any other notes?
On his website, Walter Grabner says he has a mouthpiece that works well with C clarinets. You might want to contact him. Another possibility would be Ben Redwine who makes mouthpieces designed to work with the Forte C clarinet. Zinner makes German (but apparently not French) C-clarinet mouthpiece blanks. Contacting them (or one of the American mouthpiece makers who use their blanks) might (or might not) lead to something.
Exploring a custom barrel would be another option. In any case, the solution may cost more than the clarinet.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-06-06 18:52
On back, I had a ?1920's? Conn C plastic, pretty dern good! and found a couple of Bb mps which played well, but a bit flat. I asked a good machinist friend about shortening them, so he did it on his lathe, by about 2 mm off the tenon AND the body. My tuning problem was easily solved. I cried on selling it to a needy clarinetist, even at a good profit ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2007-06-06 18:53
Are you able to take this to a reputable woodwind shop? They may have someone there who specializes in mouthpieces who'd be able to steer you in a better direction once they see it. This way you won't have to be guessing.
I took my clarinet into Gary Armstrong Woodwinds in Toronto, and Merlin knew exactly what mouthpiece to suggest to fix my intonation problems. But someone who's in your area may be able to help. To find a reputable shop, get a recommendation from a professional player at a local symphony.
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