 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mark Horne
Date: 2007-04-13 22:19
I've been wondering about this for a while. Internet technology has allowed individuals to access and share a wealth of information no matter their location - this Board being a prime example. The same technology has also enabled users to buy and sell products from all over the world, and as a consequence, the value of these products is determined on a global scale.
This brings me to my question:
What do you consider to be the most undervalued clarinet in the market today?
I'm looking strictly for opinions here; there is no right or wrong answer to this one. And we're talking about any kind of clarinet - maybe that Vito Resotone that can be had for a week's worth of lunch money. . . or that perfectly set up vintage R13. . .or a new Lyrique or Allegro (as discussed on these boards). . . or maybe an obscure stencil brand that commands no respect on the used market. Heck, it could even be that Leblanc alto collecting dust somewhere. Maybe you picked up one of the no-name Chinese clari's (CSO?) that plays surprisingly well and you've been hesitant to admit it. For alot of you it may well be a horn you already have.
The collecive knowledge of this group is considerable - what's your vote?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-04-13 22:32
> What do you consider to be the most undervalued clarinet in the market
> today?
Any recent Amati. (I might be biased, regularly using four different ones)
(edit: I forgot my "C"...)
--
Ben
Post Edited (2007-04-13 22:35)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-04-13 22:34
Forte
The line of clirinets offered by Omar Henderson (Doctor'sProducts) in this web site's retail section.
At the price, can not be beat.
disclaimer....I am NOT affiliated with Forte, but I own one (Key of C)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-04-13 23:25
Most undervalued student line clarinet - Vito V40
Most undervalued old clarinet - Couesnon
Most undervalued new/current clarinet - Amati
...GBK
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Author: Mark Horne
Date: 2007-04-13 23:28
I do want to confess that when I wrote "Allegro" above I meant "Forte."
Something about naming clarinets after musical nomenclature can be confusing - to me at least. Although the Yamaha Allegro has been discussed on these boards, the Forte is unique in that lacks both the corporate brand recognition and the overhead that comes with it. . .
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Author: Fred
Date: 2007-04-13 23:54
On the low end, I'll cast another vote for the Vito V40 - often selling for well under $100 (I bought one for $50; I know they've gone even cheaper).
I also like the older Selmers like the N-Series - a very nice professional clarinet with a big sound for around $400.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-04-14 00:12
Fred wrote:
> On the low end, I'll cast another vote for the Vito V40 -
> often selling for well under $100 (I bought one for $50;
> I know they've gone even cheaper).
A few years ago on EBay, I picked one up for $22. After a few tenon corks and 2 pads it was good to go. In addition, adding a Power Barrel to it transformed it into a very respectable instrument with nice projection and surprisingly good intonation.
Just for my own amusement I recently used the V40 with my big band to see if anyone in the sax section could tell any difference. It blended fine and the sound carried nicely...GBK
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-04-14 02:58
Old-old: Kohlerts from the 'Graslitz' era (1920s-30s).
Middle-old: Boosey & Hawkes "Edgware' and 'Series 2-20' models (1960s-70s)
Fairly new: Most Leblancs
New: Who cares? ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
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Author: LonDear
Date: 2007-04-14 03:11
I second the Amati votes. I haven't bought any, but I've played some really nice Eb, C and Bb horns, and the prices are surprisingly low. The reason I tried them were to try to find good horns for a friend's students. The keywork was solid on the horns I played, very solid. The horns were very attractive, but that probably means as little to you as it does to me. They aren't as solid as the Lyrique, but the price is right if you absolutely have to have wood. Since Tom Ridenour doesn't make Eb's (yet), I think that the Amati Eb is the most solid horn under $1000 (US).
Post Edited (2007-04-14 03:12)
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2007-04-14 13:57
I agree with GBK about vintage Couesnon Monopole Conservatoires clarinets. They are superb instruments. Whenever I take my 1960 CM to my repair tech he raves about the quality of the wood, the craftsmanship, and its sound and playing. If another clarinetist happens to be in the shop he will ask him to try the CM (it's okay with me) and see what he thinks about the instrument. The responses are always positive. I prefer the larger bore and darker sound of a CM to a R-13.
Several weeks ago I noticed a freshly overhauled CM clarinet -- this one made in the 70's -- being sold on ebay. The starting price was $450. I kept my eye on it for several days. I had been thinking about seeing if I could find another CM to have as a back up. I was amazed that no bids were being made on the clarinet. Clearly, it was in good condition. I waited until the last day to make a bid. I don't remember what my high amount was...I really wanted this clarinet. The auction ended and I was the winner. The price? $450! No one else made a bid!! I was completely floored by this -- especially, in knowing how good CM clarinets can be.
When the clarinet arrived I compared it to my 1960 model. There are some differences between them. It seemed to me that the quality of wood in the 1960 CM is superior. But, when I took the new clarinet to my repair tech for a check over and mentioned what I observed about the wood he looked at me like I was crazy and said it's very high quality unstained wood....that new R-13s don't have wood this good.
First impressions of the 70's CM are that I'm going to love playing this clarinet. I found a few things that need adjusting and my repair tech is working on it. I'm also having cork pads put in the upper joint.
My repair tech's bill should be under $300. But, even if it is $300 where could I find a pro-level clarinet of this quality for $750?
Now that I have 2 CM clarinets I don't mind letting the cat out of the bag. ha ha ha
Roger
Post Edited (2007-04-14 14:18)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2007-04-14 14:11
Hi,
I have always had good luck all with the LeBlancs and the Selmers from the Series 9 group (regular and*). These are really excellent value instruments. What I have invested in 4 or 5 instruments is probably about the same as an R13. And that's not counting the 3 perfect condition Bundys that I have set aside for grandchildren including a Mazzeo (total of about $200 and not anything other than a minor repair needed).
HRL
PS I have a pal going through some tough times and he has sold his top line sax and clarinet. The last show we worked together, he played on a student model Yamaha alto and an even older Bundy clarinet; he sounds pretty much the same but he is a really top quality player and used his regular MPs. I made him an offer on his Haynes flute but...
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-04-14 14:30
My vote is for the current Lyrique. I won't go into details - there's been plenty written already, BUT if they cost $3000, a lot more serious players would take a look at them. The fact that Tom sells them for under $1000 actually hurts him with the professional market, IMO.
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Author: cpark
Date: 2007-04-14 15:21
Yamaha CSG.
Cheapest pro horn from any of the major companies...very fine horn.
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Author: susieray
Date: 2007-04-15 00:08
Vitos, and not just the V40 but the 7212 and 7214 too.
I also like the old wooden Bundys that were made in
France the 1920's and 30's. Very similar to the K series
Selmers....but the Bundy name keeps the price down.
I recently picked one up for under $50 and it plays
extremely well and has a very nice tone.
Post Edited (2007-04-15 00:08)
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2007-04-15 16:28
You'll get as many varied answers posters on the board. One vintage clarinet that has'nt been mentioned is the Marigeaux. Their professional line clarinet was very good. They still make some fine oboes.
jbutler
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2007-04-15 18:09
What can you say about alto sax?
Sorry that this is a little off,but many play sax here.
Post Edited (2007-04-15 18:12)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-04-15 18:23
> Marigaux
Arrrgh! Don't sprinkle salt in that wound, it'll never heal!
I could slap myself forever and ever for letting a mint (new old stock) Symphonie RS 351 go. The keywork was indeed funny with the rollers, but I can see their benefit.
--
Ben
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-04-15 18:57
I would probably agree with the comment above on the Amati being one of the most undervalued clarinets. It's a great horn for the price, but always seems to go unnoticed . . .
To put a value on it, GBK, who pretty much owns nothing except Buffet R13s (14 of them or so when I remember the thread being up), bought an amati A clarinet to add to his arsenal stating that, well, it was just that good and worth it.
I had one for a short while. I don't go through clarinets quite as quickly as mouthpieces (a lot more money for clarinets than mouthpeices) but I had one for quite a while. And I would have no problems having one again.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-15 19:12
"Most Undervalued Clarinet Today"
Maybe the one I just won on the famous auction site, number 230114770171
I just couldn't resist it!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: LonDear
Date: 2007-04-16 02:07
I hate gloating, but the horn does look fun - so many keys (and rings) - enjoy! (and get some oil on that thing!)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-16 07:52
I had to cheer myself up after my mishap, so I thought 'why not'? I was looking for one of this era (from S to W series) so after I get it, it'll be stripped, replated (in silver), rebuilt and enjoyed!
There was a full Mazzeo system listed (Item number: 170099021804), and these have even more gadgets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: bwilber
Date: 2007-04-16 13:50
Hi Chris. I am wondering how you saw the clarinet that you bought as that clarinet didn't come up for me, even in completed auctions. Did you do something special for it come up for you? I see that they shipped worldwide, but I don't see many auctions, other than just the United States. Thanks, Bonnie
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-16 14:01
I look on local eBay listings for the specific country - ebay.fr, .de, .at, .co.uk etc. as for some reason they only tend to show on there rather than on the main eBay site, even if they do ship worldwide.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2007-04-16 17:38)
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2007-04-17 12:47
In the vintage catagory, I'll second David S's vote for Graslitz Kohlerts. My backup is a Kohlert with a wrap around register key and forked Bb. $9.99 on that auction site. Best ten bucks I ever spent!
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Author: nickma
Date: 2007-04-18 20:46
Ben : I agree the RS Symphonie Marigaux is a beautifully made and sweet sounding instrument.
Nick
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Author: Bill
Date: 2007-04-19 00:05
1950s-era Marigaux and any 1940s-1950s-1960s G. Leblanc clarinet.
Bill.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-03 21:45
Nick,
I finally managed to find another (new) RS Symphonie last week. At roughly the price of a 250 Yamaha. Google is a friend...
--
Ben
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-06-03 22:30
From what I have heard, but not experienced, the Orsi-Wier might qualify in the category of new pro-level instruments.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2007-06-04 00:54
Uebel Oehler clarinets of any era or make. I have an old set from the 50s and they play nicely
David Dow
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Author: Dano
Date: 2007-06-04 02:24
I have said this so many times, some may think I get some kind of kick back from Ridenour and I don't but the Lyrique is so much better than it's price suggests. It is correct to assume that if it cost $3000 more pros would be using it full time.
I also see so many Selmer CT clarinets on ebay that go for $300-$400 and having a couple already, I know that this is another clarient that has alot more going for it that the price suggests. Sometimes the market gets flooded with a certain model.
The Vito 40 is one of my favorite clarinets. I picked one up on ebay a few months ago at $45 and when I recieved it, I was amazed that it looked like it either had not been used, or had been overhauled recently. I was expecting to have to do some kind of work on it. In tune with outstanding keywork.
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Author: jack
Date: 2007-06-04 07:07
The currently produced American bore Rossi's. I guess they are around $4000, but they are so good, I believe they would be a bargain at any price. I picked up a one year old pair, Bb and A for $5500 (just dumb luck), had them put into ultimate condition by the master LA artist craftsman Tom Yeah and I've never played anything to equal. Tonewise, I can only surmise that whatever it is that produces the ideal combination of weight, bell like clarity, sublime fill of overtones and overall authority, these instruments have it. Mechanism is limber, supple and quiet - so easy to play. Enough resistance to enable coloring of sound. One anecdote: I played just two choruses unaccompanied on "Were You There" at a private venue with maybe around 100 in attendance. Several of the audience expressed (seemingly) very sincere appreciation (always welcome). But a couple of clarinetists happened to be in the audience also - their comment was "What a magnificent instrument".
Jack
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2007-06-04 15:06
New: Any Rossi, or one of Ridenour's newer instruments
Luis is still selling his instruments for less than many "production line" instruments by the biggies, despite my urging him to raise his prices to get in line with the competition. (AFTER I ordered his A clarinet, of course.)
Used: Master Model
As I've said before in another post, I've played about ten of these extensively, and they've been at least as good as the many R13s I've played and owned. I've seen these in great condition go for as low as $250 on you-know-where.
Bruce M.
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Author: Philcoman
Date: 2007-06-04 20:00
Yes! I bought my daughter an Amati beginners' model to start on (cheaper than renting a plastic clarinet), and was pleased and surprised -- nice sound, very good tuning, fairly easy-blowing. Once she got the hang of it, her notes rung with a satisfying distinctiveness mong the other clarinet. I keep wondering if we were just lucky -- I've rarely heard anything good about Amati in the past.
"If you want to do something, you do it, and handle the obstacles as they come." --Benny Goodman
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-04 20:19
> I've rarely heard anything good about Amati in the past.
Most of the negative comments seem to come from people who never touched one or got a 40yo "Iron Curtain" model. I have four (plus a stencil), and they're pretty decent.
--
Ben
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-06-04 23:12
Halfway through overhauling another Couesnon "Monopole Conservatoires" clarinet, probably early-mid 1950s vintage. Will let you know if it plays as well as my other one (1952 model). These have already been 'nominated' for the list, but another data point doesn't hurt.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-04 23:28
Maybe we should split the thread into "vintage" (no longer available new) and "current"... unless you're a treasure hunter, there's little point in praising the odd Klingon from 1923 of which only 137 have been made...
--
Ben
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-06-05 01:39
Good idea, Ben -- except I'm afraid there might be no clarinets at all in the 'available new' category, as all new clarinets are overpriced IMO!
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Author: denner22
Date: 2007-06-05 06:54
The Yamaha professional lines of clarinets (CS, SEV, CSG) are quite undervalued. Tuning is great and the old fallacy that they don't sound as good or carry sound as well as a certain other brand has long been incorrect. They are quite simply in the top class these days and should be looked at seriously as professional instruments of the first order.
I haven't tried their german models, though I would love to
David
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-06-05 14:59
I've also been a fan of the Vito V40. A good one is a good thing. And, as others have mentioned, it often can be found used for around 100.00 or under. A repad job and new corks where needed will fix it to go for years. Great outdoor horn!
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2007-06-06 14:21
In terms of current the current market...easily the Yamaha ysg clarinet which out performs all of the competion. price wise it is very reasonable as well...I can also say they are consistenly good as well. Quality control at Yamaha is much higher than the other big 3 right now...
David Dow
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