 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: olewannabe88
Date: 2007-05-30 16:44
With clarinet as the primary instrument and saxophone as the secondary, what would be the recommendation for learning the rest of the woodwinds? I'd like to learn flute; how important would the double reeds be to learn if my long-term goals involve some sort of free-lance performing alongside a steady "day job"?
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Author: Jhall
Date: 2007-05-30 17:09
If you want to be considered for playing in the pit, learn the double reeds along with the flute. Piccolo comes in handy, too.
If you're leaning towards dance band/combo type of playing, trumpet isn't a bad third or fourth double.
Have fun!
John
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2007-05-30 18:14
I would recommend some serious flute study. That would make you a clarinet/sax/flute doubler. To me this sounds practical. From the oboe perspective I think it is more likely that shows require a ob/sax/clar/flute orientation. The first instrument would be the primary instrument. There are several good flute sites for flutists that would be useful for you and even one for doublers. My one sentence of advice on the flute is to keep it off the lip and on the chin. Good luck.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Bartmann
Date: 2007-05-30 18:20
Oldwannabe88,
I play the clarinet as my primary instrument and flute as my secondary.
The flute is an extremely fun and simple instrument to play. There's no reed hassles, the instrument sets up and breaks down in less than 30 seconds, once you get a high quality flute you don't have to chase down equipment in search of that perfect sound, it's cheaper in the long run because you don't buy reeds of different strength and brands, and new mouthpieces, barrels etc, its fingering system is based on the octave, not a twelfth so you can very quickly play two octaves, it plays in tune (it might be considered the most perfectly tuned woodwind) so you sound pretty good early on, and finally you can play long hours without embouchure decay, so you get good very quickly.
As a testimony to the simplicity of the flute look at the total number of posts on this site:
the clarinet board = 235,644
the flute board = 201
Granted Sneezy started out as a clarinet board so its clarinet board has a much longer history, however, most clarinet discussions center on mouthpieces, reeds, and barrels. With the flute once you buy that sterling silver tube, it's all you. There's not really much to discuss.
So if you want to have fun, progress quickly, and not spend lots of money, I suggest the flute as a good instrument.
Bartmann
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2007-05-31 01:58
The flute sites I'm referring to are Flutenet and Galway...both Yahoo. Lots of discussion. A different world to explore.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2007-05-31 02:19
So if the flute is so easy to play, WHY would RCM Examinations send a flute/brass player to adjudicate a Grade 10 clarinet exam??? There's no comprehension of how a reed or even the instrument responds in high heat and humidity (as when I played in a closed room with no air conditioning and the halogen lights had been illuminating the stage all day!) That still bugs me - it was insulting and was a waste of my time, effort and money. A polite but serious letter of complaint was written to RCM but they have their rules.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2007-05-31 12:31
I would say ditto on the comment that flute is the next one to master. My high school girlfriend taught me the rudiments many years ago and other than getting a pretty vibrato, you can be there pretty quickly. Right now I play an Emerson 88B, which is a great instrument especially for the price. in the old days, the high E was a bad note but the new flutes have gotten around it.
I do play oboe, d'amore and English horn and even contrabassoon, and all of them in public. Generaly even the pit orchestra parts are generally ONE of the double reeds or oboe/ English horn, although i have played up to five woodwinds in one of these. These instruments are pricier(for a good one that is) and are much les forgiving of NOT PRACTICING them. Even now, my practice schedule involves every other day on oboe.
All of the woodwinds giove you clues as to how you can master your own instrument, tricky little fingerings, etc. so it's a good exercise plus lots of fun.
Efer guy
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2007-05-31 13:26
Once you have another wind instrument under your belt, flute is a simple instrument to pick up. I learned the basics of flute - middle C to D above the staff in one night when I was 10 - after only playing clarinet for a year.
As an advanced player, as long as you can form the embouchure, you should have no problem picking up flute.
In my experience, I have run into a few people who could not make a sound on flute. For most people, forming the correct embouchure is the most difficult part of playing flute.
That said, I do believe flute is extremely difficult to master in one area - dynamic contrast and control. It is so difficult to get a full sound in the lowest register and a delicate piano in the highest range. I find clarinet is much easier to control as far as dynamics are concerned.
Brenda:
Quote:
So if the flute is so easy to play, WHY would RCM Examinations send a flute/brass player to adjudicate a Grade 10 clarinet exam??? There's no comprehension of how a reed or even the instrument responds in high heat and humidity
Since I'm from the US, I'm not familiar with this Grading system, but I'll assume Grade 10 is an advanced level. I understand your gripe - in fact, at my last school many of the wind players complained that there are never wind players on the Concerto Competition panel. However, after giving the situation a good deal of thought, in a real life situation of an audition odds are great that there may only be one clarinetist on a panel. While a clarinetist may get hung up on another players tone and other clarinety issues, non-clarinetist will be listening for other qualities. And the truth is, a great musician will transcend their instrument: rhythm, intonation and overall musicianship - this is what I would listen for in any instrumentalist, not just clarinetists.
Your situation stinks, yet it is a common considerations clarinetists, oboist and bassoonists have to be prepared for, the non-optimal reed environment. I've played in a few freezing environments and on many hot n' dry stages, so I sympathize 100%. The best we can do is be as prepared as possible...and compensate when neccessary.
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2007-05-31 14:24
Here's what you should consider on becoming a "doubler":
Do you want to be a lead player, and "inside player," or double reed player, or a low reed player?
As a lead player, you'll need to be a terrific flute, piccolo & alto flute player, in addition to being a fine clarinetist and alto sax player.
As an "inside player," you need to play flute, piccolo, clarinet, Eb & bass clarinet, tenor sax, and some alto sax.
As for the double reed "doubler," you'll need to play oboe, EH, clarinet, and tenor sax, also some flute.
On the low reeds, you'll need to play clarinet, bass & contra (alto) clarinet, some flute, bari sax, and good bassoon.
When you've decided which direction you want to go, then find the best teachers/coaches, on those doubles, that you can find...and go for it!
Good luck,
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Bartmann
Date: 2007-05-31 15:31
Grifffinity,
I agree with you that the flute is extremely difficult to master in one area - dynamic contrast and control. Luckily, when a flute player approaches the issue of control and dynamic contrast, they are usually advanced players who recognize and hear the need to develop dynamic contrast and control.
I remember when I first started playing the clarinet and the teacher would move my reed on my mouthpiece a little bit down I would get a better sound immediately. Or they would sand down one side of my reed with reed rush and my sound would improve. As my sound improved through equipment changes, this also instilled the idea that improvements in sound can be achieved through equipment changes. For the clarinet this is largely true because in my opinion, most of the sound generating quality of the clarinet is dependent on the reed, mouthpiece, and barrel. So improvements/changes to these three will result in changes on sound.
In contrast, most of the flute sound generating quality is dependent on embouchure. So when perfecting dynamic control on the flute, the player very quickly realizes that any tonal improvements must be made through embouchure changes NOT though equipment changes.
So for the developing flute player, it's very reassuring to know that minor changes to embouchure will radically affect your tone. And it eliminates the excuse of a bad reed for poor tone.
Brenda,
All that being said, brass players, or flute players can never understand the effort it takes to coax a capricious piece of vegetable matter to produce calliphony.
Bartmann
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-05-31 16:09
A flute is just a flute, but a bassoon, ....
I believe that some of our military band folks can shed some light. I believe that there is a military occupational specialty called "woodwind specialist". What are the requirements for that?
I believe that requires clarinet, sax, flute and a double reed.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-05-31 16:13
Almost all of the show books call for oboe. The instrument is damn difficult to learn, so not many people go to the trouble, and for that reason, you can get a lot more work than you can just doubling flute.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bret Pimentel
Date: 2007-05-31 20:53
I maintain a website listing woodwind doubling requirements for Broadway and Broadway-style shows. Many folks here have been kind enough to contribute to it. http://www.geocities.com/bpimentel/articles/shows.htm
Based on the nearly 600 shows (over 2,100 individual books) listed:
- If you can play all the clarinets and saxophones, you can play 646 of those books.
- Adding the flutes to that boosts the number to 1463.
- Single reeds plus oboe/EH = 998.
- Single reeds plus bassoon = 856.
olewannabe88 - FWIW, this seems to support the suggestion that you add flute next. Would have been my advice, too.
Best,
Bret
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