 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bahamutofskycon
Date: 2007-05-23 21:05
I just bought a Vandoren Optimum lig (w/out cap - cap would have been too expensive) to try on my bass clarinet. The lig comes with a recommendation to store it in it's "original plastic corrosion-resistant bag."
My concern - I'm afraid if I store it in it's bag it may be more likely to be bent by accident. At $50 a pop I do not want that to happen.
My question - Is it safe to store the lig on my mouthpiece in the bag? The idea being that the mouthpiece would help the ligature keep its form if something were to bump it. Or would the "corrosion-resistant bag" be potentially harmful to my mouthpiece? Since I've a Grabner CX_LB at $250 a pop I really don't want anything to happen to it.
This may seem like a silly concern but since the first Optimum I bought came bent out of the box I'm a little worried.
Thanks for the advice,
Steve Ballas
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Author: glin
Date: 2007-05-23 21:17
Steve,
To me, I think your idea would be tedious and the bag would rip and tear over a period of time. The optimum plastic cap along with your mpc should be all that you need for storage. If the lig gets tarnished, just polish it off. I've had the optimum for 5 years now, and it looks pretty good still. If you are worried about something bumping into it, just carry it in your pocket when you leave your seat.
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Author: bahamutofskycon
Date: 2007-05-23 22:13
George - you're right it does sound tedious. However, the Optimum doesn't come with a plastic cap (at least not anymore). It either comes with with a sliver cap for $40 extra or no cap at all. At least this is the way the current Optimums for Bass work.
I do have an old plastic cap though that should fit.
If you've had no problem with tarnishing in 5 years then I won't worry about it too much. The warning that came in the box made it seem more dire than it is apparently.
Much appreciated,
Steve Ballas
Post Edited (2007-05-23 22:44)
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Author: donald
Date: 2007-05-23 22:15
i store my Opt B flat lig on a mouthpiece, with a Yamaha silver mouthpiece cap- the cap had to be bent slightly to fit. Another possibility is that a plastic mouthpiece cap can have the "ligature gap" (if you look at it i'm sure you'll work out what i mean) enlarged with a hacksaw. For many years i used the plastic cap that came with my Buescher Aristocrat student instrument with a Rovner ligature- adjusted to fit in my 16th year and still going strong well into my 26th....
donald
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Author: Michelle
Date: 2007-05-24 05:31
I have a question for you: does your Optimum fit well on your Grabner? I have an optimum for my bass and it did not fit well at all on my Grabner mouthpiece. The mpc had too much taper to it and the front end of the ligature had a significant gap, enough that it didn't touch the reed at all. I tried the optimum on a Garrett and a GG Crystal mouthpiece and I had the same problem. Ironically (or by marketing design) the mouthpiece it fit perfectly on was my trusty old Vandoren B46 from college.
Michelle
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-05-24 09:33
When I used the Optimum ligature it stayed on my mouthpiece all the time, like any other ligature I've had. It did get some tarnish (but I didn't mind anyway). Before I stopped looking into mouthpieces I tried many, in cluding a Grabner, and all was with the Optimum which I used at the time, and I don't remember any mouthpiece that didn't fit this ligature.
By the way, if I'm not mitaken the metal cap that comes with the Optimum is pretty much a waste of money since the mouthpiece with lig on it won't fit into the cap. The ligature will fit only seperately when closed. I used some plastic cap I had with the lig on the mouthpiece.
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Author: Mike Clarinet
Date: 2007-05-24 10:45
Why the corrosion-resistant bag anyway? My guess is the problem of sulphur in rubber mpc's tarnishing silver plating on any instrument metalwork. Bass cl bells seem particularly susceptible as they are large pieces of metal. Ligs which are in constant contact with mpc's are also prone to tarnish. My music shop sells anti-tarnish strips (made by 3M) which are kept in your instrument case. The sulphur is 'absorbed' by the strip and not by the silver plating which prevents tarnish.
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Author: donald
Date: 2007-05-24 11:10
Hey Mike, i don't mean to diss your post, but....
i've heard this "sulphur in mp tarnishes silver plating" theory before.... and yet i've never seen the slightest evidence. Since I ceased using Rover fabric ligatures in 1994 i've stored my mouthpiece with a silver ligature of one sort or another, and never had the slightest problem with tarnishing, or indeed had any need for "anti-tarnish strips".
who knows? (another way for the music store to make easy money?)
donald
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Author: Mike Clarinet
Date: 2007-05-24 12:03
Hey Donald,
Not to diss your not dissin' my comments... :-)
Your experiences and mine differ. I am prepared to accept that my statement about sulphur may be wrong, but it seems plausible to me. (My chemistry is however very rusty). What I have observed is that when I put a new mouthpiece (in this case Vandoren) in my clarinet case, some tarnishing appeared on the ligature. I was able to polish this off with a silver plate polishing cloth. My wife had a few anti-tarnish strips put in her case when she bought her bass (The shop threw them in as freebies, and does list them in their accessories range) and I swiped one. The tarnish did not reappear. Based on a sample of 1 (hardly significant) the strip absorbed "Ingredient X" until it dissipated naturally.
Someting definitely causes silver plate to tarnish. There was a slip of paper in my Buffet RC case when I bought it. I quote:
" We have noticed that some mouthpieces cause the discoloration of silver plated keys... "
The operative word is 'some'. Your mpc may not have caused a problem, but mine did when new.
To answer the original post: I would keep the lig on the mpc and lightly polish any tarnish (yeah, I recognize that too much polishing will rmove the plating completely).
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Author: bahamutofskycon
Date: 2007-05-24 17:52
Great advice all around, thanks!
To also answer Michelle's question about the Optimum fitting the mouthpiece - it seems to fit fine on my Grabner CX_LB. Also if you go back a couple pages and check out the Lawrie Bloom video footage on the Rico webpage you'll notice that he's using an Optimum for that interview (at least that's what it looked like to me, I could be remembering incorrectly).
Thanks,
Steve Ballas
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Author: musiciandave
Date: 2007-05-24 20:16
Hey Mike, i don't mean to diss your post, but....
i've heard this "sulphur in mp tarnishes silver plating" theory before.... and yet i've never seen the slightest evidence.
-----------------------------
Absolutely I have seen the tarnish. I have one mouthpiece which really tarnishes silver, and one which doesn't.
Solution is get an anti-tarnish strip and put it in the area of your ligature as that will keep tarnish from occurring.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2007-05-25 03:40
Hi all--
just to add my own 2c, I've had an Optimum with the silver-plated cap for 3+ years, and there's hardly any tarnish. I leave the lig on the mouthpiece, loosely clamped on an old beat-up reed, just to keep the lig securely fastened on.
As an alternative to a cap, someone makes these clip-on covers that cover just the reed and the beak of the mouthpiece. I think they have a bit of sponge inside to keep the reed hydrated. That might be worth a try--most of the retailers we all use ought to stock them.
Finally, rubber will absolutely tarnish silver plate. I know this because of that time I tried to mend a key with a broken spring using a rubber band. The horn was a silver-plated c-melody, and inside of a couple of days I had dark black lines where the rubber bands had touched the metal. Depends on the type of rubber and its sulphur content, I suppose.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-07-09 21:10
Perhaps the person who has never seen silver tarnished by hard rubber has had limited experience, or uses plastic mps, or his hard rubber mps contain low S levels. I have just started using a vd Optimum after having used "every" conceivable mp on and off the market. I have tried it with every mp in my inventory (over 30) and the only ones it comes close to being too small for are original equipment Buffets. In my experience the vd Optimum is the best I've ever used. The only negative I find is that its "unbalanced" design makes it a bit tricky to handle until you get used to it. I like it better than the Rovner Ed I have been using as my regular.
Bob Draznik
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-07-09 22:38
My Selmer Paris mouthpiece (they mix in alot of sulphur, thats what makes it shiny) started dulling my ligature but it was something I could shine off.
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Author: hans
Date: 2007-07-11 20:05
DougR,
Re: "someone makes these clip-on covers that cover just the reed and the beak of the mouthpiece"... I think that someone is Omar Henderson - or at least he sells them. That's where I bought mine.
bahamutofskycon,
I slit my special Optimum bag and leave it opened in the case. The mouthpiece with Optimum ligature and cap is stored on top of it rather than inside it. I haven't noticed any significant discolouration, and I've had three of them (clarinet, 2 saxes) for a loooong time.
Hans
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2007-07-11 23:37
I wonder if the plastic cannister for 35mm film would be sufficiently large, and rigid, for the task?
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-07-12 13:16
One of the larger "pill bottles" will allow you to store your Op lig plus cap plus 3M anti tarnish strip.
Bob Draznik
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