 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Amber
Date: 2000-06-28 18:03
What do you do about parents when they don't want you play? They are dead set against me playing in college, let alone double-majoring in it. Sure they are happy I am going into med.tech (But couldn't I just think about becoming a Dr.?)
I love music and am willing to work really hard to stay a part of it. But with my parents standing in my way each path I take, I can't do as much as fast. How do I get them to realize I have thought it through and know for sure I want to teach elementry music? I thought parents "just wanted you to be happy"? It's not like I haven't been thinking about this for a few weeks. It has been in my head for two years now! I have researched this and done my himework, so it's not like I am being stupid about this.*sigh* What am I going to do about this(them).
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Author: Meri
Date: 2000-06-28 18:17
Amber:
It is *still* possible to be an active musician and go to university and pull off good grades. Please write to me directly.
Meri
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-06-28 18:49
Amber wrote:
-------------------------------
What do you do about parents when they don't want you play? They are dead set against me playing in college, let alone double-majoring in it. Sure they are happy I am going into med.tech (But couldn't I just think about becoming a Dr.?)
------
One question, speaking as a parent, and you may not like it:
1) Who's paying for the education and in what proportion?
If you're paying for most of your education and/or a scholarship is paying, great. If you want to alienate your parents. They think they're doing you a service by pointing you to a position where you have a good chance of earning a good living.
If your parents are paying most of the costs - good luck. Money is control, and they have the bucks.
Hopefully you can work out a compromise, but it looks like a double major, at least to begin with, is out. Perhaps you can do a monor in music and then, if your grades are very good after a year, wheedle your parents into supporting a double major.
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Author: Woodrow
Date: 2000-06-28 19:53
If your parents were a part of the decision about which school you are going to, I assume that they approve of the school itself. They therefore approve of the education that school offers. The school would not offer music as a subject if it did not match it's criteria for a superiour education.
Unfortunately, I think that your parents are not thinking in terms of education, but in terms of earning potential.
Mark is right though, money talks.
So do one of two things:
1) Cut off from your parents, get some loans and pay your own way (not recommended).
2) See if you can audit the classes. Get a job and pay for some private lessons.
3) Think about pursuing music in graduate school.
Then again, a good paying job can be a nice thing while your spending your nights playing that clarinet down in the honky-tonk.
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Author: Amber
Date: 2000-06-28 20:27
First off: certain things have happened, and now I am in the process of appling for student loans and scholarships. My parents are not paying (they have two other kids, on with a disability) so them paying for my education is not really an option.
Second: I have not even picked a school yet for sure. I have only narrowed it down to 6. I have yet to decide which ones I am going to at all! That will come after I audition later in the year and see which ones I get accepted into.So they can't disapprove of my school ...yet
3) I don't want to be a musician for a living. I realize I am not good enough or ever will be. Besides, my passiion is in teaching little kids how to hank out Mary had a little lamb! So many kids drop out because of teachers who are there just passing time until they get a break. I want to help stop that.
BUT MY PARENTS DON"T UNDERSTAND THAT!! THEY WON"T LISTEN! WHAT WILL THEY LISTEN TO!!!!!!!
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Author: SusieQ
Date: 2000-06-28 21:23
Maybe once you decide on a school and get accepted, they will understand your goals more and take you more seriously. Most universities and colleges have councilors to help you and your parents out in which direction you should take. My niece didn't have to decide a major until the begining of her junior year, so maybe for now concentrating on narrowing down your list of schools will help. Good Luck to you in the future and don't ever give up on your music, even if it is just for a hobbie.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-06-28 21:39
Amber, if you're paying for it then you can decide, of course, but you'll risk alienating your parents. I'd really recommend working on your major but selecting a school with a wind ensemble that you can join for credit or something similar, along with lessons. The grades & transcript are yours, not your parents, and will be mailed to you directly.
My <i>personal</i> opinion is not to tell your parents that you're taking a wind ensemble class - just do it. They probably won't question (or know) your classes, and I wouldn't volunteer the info. Once you've settled in and are more comfortable in the school of your choice (and in your grades) then perhaps you'd want to tell them that you're taking a music course or two.
I wouldn't outright lie, but I would avoid the subject with them. You're the one financially responsible, so you should be able to make the choice.
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Author: Ginny
Date: 2000-06-28 21:53
Many people switch majors part way through college, often going undeclared as freshman...a passive way to defer the fight until you're out in the world a bit. There are many general ed requirements and the music may count toward some of these. Also, as mentioned elsewhere, few people (outside of engineers and business majors) work in their degreed area. Music majors are respected and hired for other jobs or go on to Law or Med school at high rates.
On the other hand,your parents may know what your strengths are... what are they encouraging you to study? Perhaps they see your talent there. Know that they want to help you, even though its annoying.
If you have a lot experience with disablilities (you mentioned a sybling) you might explore music therapy.
My parents discouraged my majoring in music, and with 20/20 hindsight they were probably right (after a masters degree in music, I now am finishing a math degree.)
Ultimately we must all find our own way, your parents do not have to face your future everyday, so make a sensible but joyful choice.
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Author: Kim L
Date: 2000-06-28 22:34
Parents have dreams for you. They want you to do what they want because they are proud of you. However, don't let them stand in the way of your dream. Tell them that you would rather major in music, where you'd be happier than medical tech. They won't be happy and they probably will yell. But, remember it is also their money you are spending when you go off to college. Wouldn't you think that the money should be well spent instead of down the drain?
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-06-28 23:09
Amber, is it that they object to you being an elementary school teacher? You have said twice now that is what you want to do. It shouldn't matter whether it's a music teacher or other type of teacher.
If they object to your being a teacher, what is their reason? Low pay? Afterall no one wants to see their kids struggle. A lot of sacrifices have to be made if the pay is low. Parents know that this is a tough life. They want to protect you.
On the other hand, there isn't much point in having a high paying job that you hate. Too many people do this and end up with health problems of all kinds.
You have to answer in your own mind whether you know enough about your prospective financial situation and its consequences. Will the joy of teaching be satisfying enough to sustain you? For some people it is. These are the truly great teachers of the world. Their joy of teaching reaches the students and affects the students lives for long after.
Keep trying to gently and tactfully bring them around. We have so few great teachers that it would be a shame to lose someone who might end up being one of them.
Sometimes parents do have rather odd reasons. I had a roommate in college whose parents cut her off because she was studying to be a veterinarian specializing in large animals. They considered the profession unsuitable for a female. It didn't matter that she would eventually out earn most other college graduates. She stayed with it though and got funding somehow (I think there were quite a few grants available for this field).
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Author: Jake Wallace
Date: 2000-06-29 01:51
Hmm, as surprising as it may sound, I'm almost in the same boat as you. One difference: I decided in April that I wanted to go into a music career of some sort. My mother, who was already bothered by me wanting to double-major in music (premed/music), was livid, and there was a large schism going on in my family between those who were opposed to the decision and those who supported me.
Anyway, how I solved the problem: I stuck to my guns. I stood my ground and told my less understanding relatives that I was living my life. To recompense them, I'm working harder than I ever have on my music, and I still intend to do the same double-major, just emphasized the opposite way.
As for Mark's suggestion of joining classes without telling the folks: I wouldn't suggest it. I started taking lessons from a local professional back last October without telling my parents. When they found out in April (my teacher left a message for me with my mother), they weren't exactly happy that I had been holding something behind their backs.
Anyway, if you're talented enough to handle the classwork, I say go for it. In almost any school you don't have to declare until the end of sophomore year. Just be frank with your parents. Stubbornness isn't the best virtue to have all the time, but it might pay off here...
Jake Wallace
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-06-29 02:37
Jake Wallace wrote:
<br>-------------------------------
<br>As for Mark's suggestion of joining classes without telling the folks: I wouldn't suggest it.
<br>-------
<br>If you're living in the US, age 18 is the age of emancipation; there's nothing much your parents can do, especially if you're supporting yourself financially. Amber will be away at college supporting herself.
<br>
<br>I don't tell my son what classes he should be taking; I assume that he's doing OK and that if he messes up he'll lose his scholarship. If he wants to share his marks with me that's great, but I have no right to tell him what to do anymore. It's a bit late for that!
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Author: Kim L
Date: 2000-06-29 04:14
When you go into college, you major in something that you are interested in. Supposing you went into college and you weren't interested in your major-you were just doing what your parents wished for you to do. I think that this could spell trouble because some students who do what their parents tell them, may wind up flunking out because they aren't passionate about what they are doing. If I had been told to major in physics I would definitely fail because I can't handle calculus, etc.
I think that you should tell your parents to stay open to your career choices. There will be many teacher openings in the next 10 years because of their generation retiring. Be positive in speaking about music. They may listen.
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Author: Graham Elliott
Date: 2000-06-29 08:01
As I don't understand the US education system i have probably got this wrong but:
Is the qualification they want for you a medical one? If so, are either of your parents medics who want you to uphold the family tradition? In other words, what actually lies behind their dislike of your decision to teach music to youngsters? Do they think you might not be suited to that? What have you done to prove to you and them that you would be a success in that role (for example spare time work with children's groups etc.)?
I think your basic proposition is more or less right, that parents just want their children to be happy, so the likelihood is that there is something else in this which is causing the difference of opinion between you and them.
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Author: steve
Date: 2000-06-29 14:23
Amber, your story is old and often repeated, and ultimately very sad. Many people just don't get it when you are bitten by the music bug. The music bug can propel you into anything from being an instrument repair tech, rich music store business owner, solo clarinetist in the cleveland orchestra, happy high school band director, intense college music professor, respected music critic for a major newspaper, recording studio engineer...and on and on....sometimes you don't realize yourself where the music bug can lead....but there is one characteristic of all these paths...you're on your own...you have to put a life together for yourself from many diverse paths and interests, and sometimes you do this without a safety net. this is very scary to folks who have not been bitten by the music bug.
you don't just go to school, learn a discipline or trade that's in demand, apply for a job, then get taken under the wing of a huge drug company making nearly $100000 a year with benefits (health, savings, etc) unheard of by most people, as my life turned out.
some parents think of this when their kids want to get a life. they think safety. and certain aspects of the music career are not safe. I've played at many benefits to raise money for friends who needed medical expenses covered. A prominent Chicago Symphony clarinet player told me his first gig in a symphony orchestra netted him (and his wife who played second) about $7000. I bought my R-13 in 1969 from a musician who's house and contents were going up in a sheriff's sale. The mass media portrays popular musicians as drunks and drug addicts. Unfortunately, I've seen more of these problems among my rock musician friends than among my chemist friends.
many parents allow their fears dictate their hopes for their children, instead of their dreams...
what to do? the above postings have many good suggestions...here is my story for what is worth:
I was good in HS. I studied with Marcellus at CIM and Squire at BW. My dream was to go to Eastman and study with Hasty, try to break into the symphony world, and if not, go back for a PhD in theory/conducting and teach at college. My father was a chemist and had nothing but contempt for music and musicians, despite the fact that he was a virtuoso piano player, had a fiddler/brother who went to tanglewood in the 50's, and a relative who was solo horn in cleveland. He hammered into me the fear of putting a life together in the music world, and the disgust he would feel for me if I became a musician. I begged to go to Interlochen, and he let me go on the understanding that it was a nice way to spend a summer. When I auditioned for the Academy, he stopped it. He did pay for me to go to college to major in chemistry. I got into northwestern, studied with stowell and ormand, played for paynter, until I ran out of time. Quit.
Got a PhD in chemistry, just like the old man. Got a job with a drug company. Hated/hate every minute of it. Tried to keep playing, but contracted a neurological disease that put an end to my music.
The moral? My father's fear was that I would get into a position where I would get sick, I'd loose my performance skills, and my musician friends wouldn't be able to raise enough money to cover my health expenses. He eventually died of cancer after many years of illness, all covered by Union Carbide. He was right for me too. As it turned out, my employer picked up my huge medical expenses, but I can still be a chemist, because the primary use is your brain, not hands or embouchure....
right decision? wrong decision? self-fulfilling prophesy? don't know....
bitter? relieved?...depends what day of the week...
what do you do? don't know.....
the world of growing up is never clear cut, we never know what will happen....anyway, friends and lovers are more important than anything else...
good luck...
s.
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Author: C. Hogue
Date: 2000-06-29 14:27
I think Graham is onto something:
Graham Elliott wrote:
-------------------------------
what actually lies behind their dislike of your decision to teach music to youngsters?
________________________________
Have your parents indicated to you WHY they oppose your plan of studying music? Is it fear that you won't earn a good living? Or do they have other "plans" for you -- like you being a medical technician? (I knew people when I was in college who were becoming doctors not because they wanted to help others or were interested in medicine but because their parents had told them, since they were bitty children, that they were going to be doctors when they grew up. Scary, huh?)
You need to calmly ask them about the reasons behind their opposition. When you get their answer, be determined just to listen.
One last question -- are you by chance the oldest child? Or the first child to go to college? Oldest kids -- or the one first to leave the nest -- so often have the greatest struggles with parents over independence. By the time my parents got to me (#4 of 4), they were all broken in and knew which battles were appropriate to fight and when to let me go.
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Author: Amber
Date: 2000-06-29 17:18
Ok I think there is some confusion. I want to double major in med. tech. and music ed. Both are very important to me and I won't give up one for the other.
So it isn't like I have given up the "sensible" career. I never planned to do music ed. as a career anyway. What I really want to do is help start music programs in the poorer schools and give others a chance to really love music. Kinda my little crusade of my own. The public school system in CA is either really good, or really bad, depending how rich your town is.And I want to change that.
And to answer Grahams question, yes, there has been at least one person in the medical field on my mothers side for a long time. But that pressure comes from my grandma (who, actually is realy supportive of my decision and is thrilled to have a cultured person in the family). But it isn't like I am giving up!!!
And yes, I am the oldest child. In fact, out of all the cousins I have (14 in an hour radius) I am the oldest, so I am the first one at all going off to college. So all my aunts are watching me like a hawk to see if I sink or swim (but in a nice way).
I have tried asking them! All they say is "I don't need a reason" (Dad) or "MY saying so is enough" (Mom)
And for the one who said to play for them...they hate the clarinet. Why couldn't I have picked up the flute if I had to play, instead of a sleazy clarinet?....Well, thank you all for listening. You have given me a lot to think about and try. Thanks and if you think of anything else, please let me know. Thanks
Amber
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Author: Brent
Date: 2000-06-29 18:45
First of all, Steve, i really appreciate your story. Life is full of multiple opportunities, and we'll never know the "what if"s.
One item i haven't heard is the suggestion that you consider a school which has a decent education program, but not a top-of-the-line performance program. Here's why: when i was at the University of Cincinnati (in engineering--i was afraid my dad would not support a music degree, although he never said so in as many words) it was very difficult to get into anything musical because the competition at CCM was so stiff. Although i was very good at clarinet, i didn't have/make the time to practice that i would have needed to outshine the music majors, nor did i have the funds for private lessons. As a result, i had a difficult time enjoying playing, and eventually dropped out for a number of years. I'm not saying that would happen to you, but it may be easier to stay involved when the pond is not so big, so to speak.
This still leaves you the opportunity to take one or two electives which focus on the music education area--really what Mark was suggesting before.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-06-29 18:52
They have no reason to complain then if you plan on med tech as a career and then just plan to teach a bit privately on the side. So long as you can handle the course load, I think you should just go ahead and do it. You sound sensible enough to be able to know that if it's too much that you'll have to cut something back.
I'd suggest you just forge ahead, brag a bit on med tech grades and even though they know about the music don't bring it up if they don't. As you stated, you are paying for this yourself. Under such circumstances, the final decision should be yours.
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Author: Kim L
Date: 2000-06-29 19:53
Maybe they'll listen to you going into music therapy. It is helping handicapped children. When you major in music therapy, you major in music, as well as all courses for special education. You can work in a hospital, or have your own private practice.
But, I love the lure of teaching too! I am going into my second year of music education. I love it so far!
Good luck!
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-06-29 21:17
With 14 cousins living that close by, IMHO once you're out of the house, a lot of the pressure on you will let up. Right now you're *there* where everybody can butt in and offer opinions about everything. Once you're *not there*, a lot of that advice will go to the ones who are *still* there and handy!
I think Mark had the right idea about just doing whatever you need to do and not saying too much about it at home. You don't have to lie -- just don't go out of your way to confront your parents. Don't rub in what you're doing, but you don't have to let them bully you, either.
Once you're in college, you're an adult, and since you're arranging your own finances, your parents can't use "dollar diplomacy" to force you into career choices. They may want you to fulfill dreams of theirs that never came true -- but it's your life. These are your decisions now -- your successes, your failures, your rights and your responsibilities.
It's hard for some parents to make the transition Mark has made. He sees his son as an adult. Your folks are clinging. IMHO it's best if you just try to avoid the argument. Talk about it as little as necessary. That "because I said so!" thing they're doing works with a 5-year-old, or even a 15-year-old, but you're a young adult and that type of dictating is not appropriate any more.
In your place, I think I'd try to conceal the anger and take an attitude of tolerant amusement -- "Mom and Dad, I love you, but didn't we already have this fight?" Then quickly and quietly change the subject, or leave the room ASAP. Don't get on that treadmill with them of going over and over and over the same disagreement. (If you do keep on engaging in the same old fight, the answers don't change, but the level of hostility rises. Nobody needs that.) Once they figure out that in order to keep a good relationship with you, and in order to keep lines of communication open, they have to let you grow up, they'll back off. If that doesn't happen, then most likely you will end up distancing yourself from them for awhile, until they get the message.
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Author: Megan
Date: 2000-06-30 01:41
Can you go to grad school in music w/o majoring in it?
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2000-07-01 18:58
Go to your local video store (preferably a big one like Video World or Blockbuster) and rent a movie called "Beyond Silence." Invite your parents to watch it with you.
The plot: Young girl develops a passion for the clarinet which her deaf parents cannot understand. Ends up majoring in music at a school in Berlin.
It's a bit of a tearjerker, but maybe it'll make a point or two.
On your situation: If you want to be a professional music teacher or therapist, you can earn a decent living. Double majors are tough, though, and majoring in music sometimes feels like a double major in terms of workload.
If you would rather be in the medical profession, that needn't stop you from tutoring kids--particularly younger kids. High school and college students often tutor first and second-year players.
No matter what, keep practicing your horn. No one can take those skills away from you, and your abilities will enhance your quality of life no matter what your profession.
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Author: Chloe
Date: 2000-07-01 22:27
Amber,
I know how you feel; I'm 16 and in the process of choosing my A-Levels and with the option columns available cannot choose both physics and music. Slightly difficult when you find physics and chemistry easy and are easily top of the year but have a life based around music. Especially when your parents are obsessed with the idea of you studying science at Cambridge University. I've been thinking about things a lot and think maybe it's a lot about which people make you feel valued. Playing makes me feel secure and it often seems that music people are the nicest people i know. I had a physics teacher who last year peoclaimed "What this girl was top of physics- impossible" whereas my music teachers try to boost my confidence as I am quite insecure.
Have you had a music teacher who really inspired you and made you want to be like them because I think that for me that was a big issue that maybe can create illusions.
The most important thing is to get a balance- and if you are paying for college it should be one that will make you happy. When you are looking at colleges maybe choose one with as many bands, orchestras etc as possible which clearly accept a wide range of abilities so you'll be pretty much guaranteed lots of playing opportunities without facing constant competition from the music majors. Whatever you do- be happy with it and "Don't look back in anger" because you can't change the past.
Chloe
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