 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ClaireTune
Date: 2007-05-14 21:29
Hi! My son plays clarinet for 2 years now. He is 13. He recently changed to a Vandoren B45 clarinet, still uses his Vandoren V12 3 1/2 reed. It seems to be really hard for him. He complains that he does not have enough air. He has to take a breath very shortly, and he gets a headache after 15 minutes! Also there are lots of squeeks that were not there before (He used the mouthpiece that came with the clarinet before). What's wrong? Is the reed too hard? Or could it be something wrong with the mouthpiece? Or maybe he is blowing it worng? His teacher said it's a matter of getting used to the new mouthpiece. But I am worried.
Any suggestions are very much appreciated.
BTW, I saw some teachers posting questions on how to help their students. I must say I was deeply moved. These are teachers who really care. As a mother of two music students, I admire your dedication very much.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-05-14 21:44
If one's getting a headache from playing, then switch down gears, err, reeds (or mouthpieces) immediately. You may blow (sic) a vessel or damage your hearing etc. Would you let your child inflate hot-water bottles?
--
Ben
Post Edited (2007-05-14 21:46)
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-05-14 21:47
Yes that reed is too hard for that mouthpiece. B45's are very open and need a softer reed. Try a 2 1/2 or 3 and that should help a lot. Maybe more advanced players with well developed facial muscles and air support could use that hard of a reed but deffinetly not a 13 year old who has been playing for a couple of years.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-05-14 21:48
Hello ClarieTune,
My first reaction is to say that the reed is too hard. However I just looked up the B45 and Vandoren recommends V12 3 & 3.5.
It would be an easy thing to buy some 3's and see if this helps.
You might also check to see if he is taking too much mouthpiece into his mouth...what worked on the previous mouthpiece might not be the exact right amount with the new one.
If there is a fundamental problem with his embouchure it will be hard to diagnose it here.
There is an acclimation period with any new product, and when things are a little foreign young clarinetists do squeak...but a squeal by itself isn't a bad thing (for young people)!
There is the outside chance that this indiviual mouthpiece is flawed. You might have his teacher clean it up and play it themselves.
Good luck!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2007-05-14 21:49
-- "Or could it be something wrong with the mouthpiece?" --
No, but there could be something wrong with the teacher!
Isn't a 3.5 reed rather strong for a B45 mouthpiece? I can't imagine any teacher using this combination for a 13 year old.
-- "His teacher said it's a matter of getting used to the new mouthpiece. But I am worried. " --
I'd say it's a matter of changing teachers. Let him be the one who's worried!
Steve
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-05-14 22:13
Did he switch clarinets, or , switch mouthpieces?
Did you mean he switched to a different clarinet? Your initial post isnt clear.
A B45 is a mouthpiece, not a model of clarinet.
If he switched clarinets, have the new one checked by a tech for leaks.
If he switched mouthpieces, try the old one again. Or a softer reed.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: ClaireTune
Date: 2007-05-14 22:23
Thanks to all the replies. I really appreciate it. I will definitely go shopping for a softer reed.
He is still using his old clarinet, but with a new Vandoren mouthpiece. The clarinet is recently fixed, so no leaking issues now.
Talking about leaking, can you (or your teacher) tell when your clarinet leaks? My son's teacher told him many times to let the air get to the bell. Now he gets a lot more and fuller sound after the leaking problem was fixed. It feels like it was an instrument problem. But I don't really know for sure as I do not know much about instruments.
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2007-05-14 23:40
ClaireTune wrote:
Quote:
My son's teacher
Is this a private clarinet teacher or a general ed. music teacher, who perhaps does not have a lot of clarinet experience?
The reason I ask is that most clarinetist would not recommend the B45 for a middle school aged student. However, I have known a few band directors who don't play clarinet who have recommended the B45.
As stated above, it is a very open Mouthpiece and may be difficult for a young player to control. If Vandoren is the prefered mouthpiece, I'd suggest the 5RV Lyre, which is neither too open or too closed. Also, many well known mouthpiece makers have student line mouthpieces that are the same price or cheaper than a Vandoren:
Clark Fobes
Brad Behn
Gennusa (Ben Redwine)
Hite
If your kid is still having problems on a softer reed, I'd suggest looking into another mouthpiece.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-05-15 05:56
With my B45 I use regular Vandoren strength 2.5, or at most V12 strength 3.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-05-15 08:45
The reed strength guides Vandoren suggest are just that - guides. It's up to the individual what reed strength they're comfortable with (and in a trial and error manner), not what they deduce from seeing it written somewhere.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-05-15 11:45
In addition to skepticism about manufacturers' recommendations, a young clarinet student may need to resist peer pressure to use the hardest possible reed. Speaking of reeds as "stronger" or "weaker" probably contributes to the myth that "stronger" (harder) reeds are somehow better, and that a "strong" reed indicates the player is better, more experienced, more adult (more manly...). Some of these kids think they're wimps if they don't play on reeds that could shingle a roof! It's a terribly harmful myth, since as several other people have already mentioned, the best balance between reed, mouthpiece and person is an individual thing.
There's just barely enough truth in the myth to keep it going, generation after generation. The little bit of truth is that the youngest students, who have no developed embouchure at all, do sometimes start off on 1 or 1.5 reeds--and those really are too soft for most instruments, once the student gets some experience. These kids may feel a sense of accomplishment when the teacher says it's time to graduate up to a harder reed--and then they think, mistakenly, that with every advance in playing ability, they should "advance" the size of the reed. One way to combat this nonsense is simply to point out that it's nonsense, and that the *really* mature player knows better.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-05-15 12:44
Hello all,
I was rereading my post Chris, and it does read as if I gave Vandoren's recommendations a bit of absolute certainty which I do not believe.
I agree completely with your advice on the subject!
Lelia: I work pretty assiduously to fight that myth in every school that I teach. I generally tell students that the reed strength they are supposed to use has more to do with the dimensions of the mouthpiece than their personal ability playing the clarinet. (Before I make a mistake...I give this advice to students who are attempting to determine how high they should go...)
(And then they ask me what I use...)
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: pelo_ensortijado
Date: 2007-05-15 13:06
there is one more possibility:
the teacher wants to make the students airsupport stronger a lot faster by using to strong reeds that makes him to blow really really hard. and eventually he will change it down so that he can blow better and more free.
i know we use the techniqe from time to time in school and it makes a lot of changes for the emboshure. its like a really hard workout. this we only used in the beginning when the airsupport needs quick developing so that we get to the level where we are able to play a real ff without geting totaly exhausted....
i dont think that it should be used on 13year olds, but maybe he does, not realizing the danger!!
just a thought...
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-05-15 13:16
If you really want to strengthen your embouchure (especially the lips) and your lungs, replace the bell with a balloon and start inflating it through the mouthpiece (with reed and all). There should be no sound when you're doing this.
Except from embouchure, you train your finger placement.
All in all this technique did wonders to my playing, and you can practice at 2AM if need be...
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-05-15 13:26
http://www.vandoren.com/en/tab3.html
I believe this guide is compiled by experienced players who have a well developed embouchure to make an accurate choice of reeds that they feel are suited to each of the different facings on offer, but on the other hand it can be misleading to beginners and students giving them the impression they need to play on the minimum specified reed strengths in the chart depending on the mouthpiece they have, even though they may not have the chops for it, and falling short of the guide can be viewed as being inadequate.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ClaireTune
Date: 2007-05-15 15:46
Dear all,
I bought the Vandoren V12 #3 reed for my son yesterday. It was a lot better! The headache was gone, so were most of the squeeks. He still feels he can not breath as comfortably as before with his old mouthpiece and the #3 1/2 reed (out of breath sooner). But he said now it is probably a matter of getting used to it. Thanks to all your suggestions. I also learned a lot through your discussions.
I'm glad I found this forum.
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Author: D
Date: 2007-05-15 15:56
Glad he is doing better with the no.3 reeds.
Depending on your situation, if you can do try and find him a chance to play with another teacher. Perhaps a community group that offers cheap but good tuition or a summer school over a couple of days. Doesn't have to cost the earth or be permanent. It might be that the teachers words via your son and then via you sound different to us than how they were meant, simply due to the 'Chinese whispers' effect. But if that is really what the teacher has been saying then I would want to at least investigate the possibility of finding someone else for him.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-05-15 16:58
Not to mention it doesn't hurt to change teachers every now or then, or at least get some lessons from someone else other than your primary teacher every now and then. People (it just happens) tend to have certain thoughts and views about things. It's nice to hear second opinions, and get a flux of new ideas every now and then.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: ClaireTune
Date: 2007-05-15 19:50
Hello, again! I feel I should be fair to my son's teacher. I called him yesterday to let him know about the issues about the new mouthpiece. He did say maybe we should try a softer reed. He knew about the breathing and squeek problems, but I'm not sure if he knew about the headache problem. He is in general a very nice person.
I have been thinking maybe we should change to a different teacher, but I need lots of guidance, maybe from this forum. I do not have too many choices for clarinet teachers locally. Our current teacher is the only one specializing in clarinet and teaches clarinet only. A few others are music teachers in middle/high school and teaches several woodwind instruments. They all play clarinets, but clarinet is not their strongest instruments. All teaches private lessons. I heard very good things about one of the music teachers in school. But I am concerned that he is not specialized in clarinet. Does it really matter? What should I look for when looking for a clarinet teacher? Maybe this should be posted as a separate issue.
Thanks again.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-05-16 13:04
> Vandoren V12 #3 reed for my son... It was a lot better!
> The headache was gone, so were most of the squeeks. He still feels he
> can not breath as comfortably as before with his old mouthpiece and the
> #3 1/2 reed (out of breath sooner).
Maybe a 3 is still a bit too hard? Like I wrote above, Vandoren 2.5 work good with B45 (and especially if he is a beginner). I think it's worth trying at least (if it's getting too soft you can always move to the 3).
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-05-16 13:40
Your isp says that you are in Southern California,
The only place that has more clarinetists and teachers might be the New York Area. Contact a local university like Chapman in Oange and see if you can speak to the clarinet teacher there. I believe Michael Grego is at Chapman (he is a very nice guy and very good player/teacher). See if he can recommend a teacher for your son. It's always a good idea to contact univeristys to find clarinet teachers if you don't have any other ideas. Most colleges have serious grad students that have a lot to offer and also will provide good instruction at a reasonable price.
Like others have said, if the 3 is still a bit firm, using a 2 1/2 is completely normal and might help even more.
Good luck.
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Author: Dano
Date: 2007-05-16 13:41
I think the student should have some input about going to a certain reed strength. What reed-mouthpiece combo makes his studies possible without too much strain? If he can't blow comfortably, he can't learn the clarinet. This clarinet thing is a slow process.
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