 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: voggorb
Date: 2007-05-13 15:39
Hi, I'm getting really frustrated over my constant reed problem. I play V12 3.5 reeds on my Grabner K14 mouthpiece, and maybe like one or two reeds from a box are any good at all. All other reeds are almost horrible and sound fuzzy or dull, making it extremely hard for me to start a clean, crisp note without any "air" sound, etc.
I know that the strength is the right for me, because the few reeds that play well for me, are very good, and I can even play strength 4 without any problems at all, as long as the reed is a good one.
I have learned from my teacher that the reason for the reeds not responding well and sounding fuzzy, is often that the reed is uneven (not flat) on the back side. This seems true, because if I rub the back of a bad reed on a piece of paper, only the middle part gets "shiny" (not the rails/edges), when held to the light, which must mean that it isn't flat, right?
And so I try to sand it (very gently, a little at a time) to make it flatter, but it doesn't become totally flat before the reed gets too thin and is destroyed! So the bottom line is that I can't make my reeds flat without destroying them..
Btw, I use a Vandoren reed case which I keep inside a Rico Reed Vitalizer (73%).
Post Edited (2007-05-13 15:40)
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2007-05-13 15:47
If you use sandpaper to flatten the back of a reed, make sure that you are keeping the tip OFF of the sandpaper and are using equal pressure. It is possible you are taking too much off the back under the heart of the read or near the tip. Also, you should only sand in one direction - moving the reed off the sand paper pushing from the butt end, with fingers equalizing pressure on the reed.
I rarely use sandpaper now to flatten reeds - preferring to use a knife. Usually one or two swipes of my knife are enough to flatten a reed (again avoiding the tip area). I find sandpaper takes too long and if the pressure is not correct I can make the issue worse.
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-05-13 15:48
I wouldn't necessarily say this is the problem. I use a knife. I FIRST try make the back of the reed shiny. Then I play the reed. There's a thread where GBK tells what reed problems you have I just can't remember where it is. Usually if I can't get a good sound out of the reed I take the knife and scrape away right in the middle and then try to level it all out. It usually works for me. Sometimes some reeds just aren't meant to work right. I had a Gonzalez for as much scraping I did and dipping in Hydrogen Peroxide..it didn't play well. It had a FAT low register and everything else was bad. The rails were to uneven to ever make even and keep a good tone.
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Author: TheButler
Date: 2007-05-13 15:59
If you have no experience with working on reeds like I did myself one year ago, I can only recommend the ATG system by Tom Ridenour. I was in the same spot you were (also using 3,5 V12's btw).. finding only few reeds played well right out of the box. With the ATG system and a reed cutter (Cordier) I now feel like having total control over my reeds..
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-05-13 16:05
When it comes to reed adjusting - less is more.
Some reeds will warp (or come to you already warped) and are beyond repair. Don't waste your time and energy. Toss them aside.
I do not like using sandpaper on the backs of reeds, for the simple reason that you are thinning the blank. What is the point of buying a thick blank reed if you are going to alter the thickness?
Rather, initially wet the reed. Keep it pressed tight against a thick glass surface after each break in session to train the reed to lie perfectly flat.
Most reeds will eventually listen - some won't ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
IF I find that the back of the reed has a high spot, I usually just run the BACK of my reed knife over it, removing a very small amount of material. This will often free up a balky reed.
Don't forget that there are other areas of the reed, which when SLIGHTLY adjusted can produce optimum response for THAT reed.
No two reeds look, feel, play or respond the same.
Therefore, have a flexible enough embouchure to compensate for the small differences...GBK
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Author: voggorb
Date: 2007-05-13 17:14
Thanx for all the replies! It sounds like maybe I should get myself a decent reed knife and stop using sandpaper. Grifffinity, those are good advice (keeping the tip off of the sandpaper, and going in one direction), but unfortunately that's what I've been doing without much success..
GBK, I am using the Vandoren reed case which holds 4 reeds, and it has grooves which I have heard is good because of the air which then circulates between the reed and the surface (bad explanation but you all know what i mean!). So isn't it bad keeping them on a glass surface, since the water/moisture has no where to "escape", causing the reeds to warp after a while? Just wondering...
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Author: William
Date: 2007-05-13 17:25
"Play the reed--don't let the reed play you"--William Stubbens, ledgendary University of Michigan Professor of Clarinet. The stronger your embouchure becomes, the more reed imperfections you will be able to overcome be simply "overpowering" the reed and making it play your way. I've also found when my emouchure is in top condition, I can get the "big" sound that I need with a softer reed and play for yours without getting tired. In other words, I don't really need a super-strength reed for the sound, just good embouchure control.
BTW, I never worry about the backside of my reed being flat--no sandpaper, knife or burnishing usedd. For me, it's all about the tip, heart and shoulders. If they are in good balance, the butt is irrelevant. What I do is store my reeds on glass and, as GBK suggested, that may "train" my reeds to lie flat "naturally". All I care is that they play, flat or not.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-05-13 17:30
I understand what GBK says about sanding making the reed thinner, but if you find that you make them too thin while lightly sand the back of the reed flat, just buy a half-size bigger reed. AKA if you like 3.5's but sand them too thin, buy 4s and sand those.
What I recommend for the backs of the reeds is putting a piece of paper (which is equivalant to a VERY fine grit sandpaper) on something flat (glass) and rub the back of the reed on that. Will take VERY little away and will flatten it out nicely (get that shininess on the back).
And I agree about the ATG system. I don't use the sandpaper, but what I learned from the manual and the DVD I use EVERY time I have problems with a reed. And I get most reeds performable, EVERY reed practicable.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-05-13 22:02
I don't know why people are havin trouble with V-12 reeds. I and my teacher both play on Grabner K14 mouthpiece. He is using V12 3.5 and I'm using Glotin GIII 3.5. I've tried a whole box of V-12 on the K14 without any problem all reed sounded good. My teacher can use almost all the reeds in a box but only like 3-4 are concert quality so he often play a good reed and keep it until next concert in the symphony. When I used V-12 as my reed of choice I could use all the reeds but maybe 1 were only good for scales and like 4 to even 5 were concert quality. The only reason I'm now playing the Glotin GIII is that I got them very cheap and they are somewhere between Gonzalez FOF and V-12 in resistance because I wanted a little bit more resistance for my K14(was previously using Grabner AW).
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Author: Ed
Date: 2007-05-14 00:46
To solve that, I use a flat file. It tends to take out the warp without taking out so much of the reed or the tip. I have had MUCH better luck than with sandpaper doing this.
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2007-05-14 02:02
Quote:
GBK, I am using the Vandoren reed case which holds 4 reeds, and it has grooves which I have heard is good because of the air which then circulates between the reed and the surface (bad explanation but you all know what i mean!).
I personally hate the Vandoreen reed case you discribed. I have found that those groves cause my reeds to dry unevenly - the exact opposite of the designs intent.
For years, I've used a basic LaVoz reed guard (they come for 2 or 4 reeds) and store the guard in a plastic bag. In the winter, I throw in a damp piece of sponge.
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2007-05-14 16:56
I'm really puzzled by discussions of reed warping. Every reed I've ever had straightened out once moist, no matter how warped they became upon drying or while being moistened. Am I missing something?
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Author: voggorb
Date: 2007-05-14 17:10
Bennet, I too have had no problems with the tip of the reeds warping (mine don't), but it is the backside of the reeds that sometimes (often) are uneven for me, making the reed hard to play, at least that's what I have learned. But I don't know, maybe the backside doesn't even matter as much as I have thought. Maybe it's something else that's bad with my unplayable reeds, ie tip, rails, etc.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2007-05-14 19:01
I am of the "file" persuasion. I use a flat "mill bastard" file when I play cane reeds (which is hardly ever). I use only enough pressure to be able to move the reed back and forth, keeping it parallel to the sides of the file, and only a few passes.
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Author: nickma
Date: 2007-05-14 19:25
I would suggest that, unless you have lungs of steel, # 3.5 is a rather hard reed for a Grabner K14. Going down to a # 3 may well help considerably. Somehow we all get sucked into the 'harder is better' school. But why?....
Nick
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-05-14 22:45
Nick I know many people who use V-12 #3.5 on Grabner K14 both on the closed and the open side and also on K13. I don't feel so much difference between using #3.5 on Grabner K14(1.06-8),AW(1.04) and SW1(0.98) Although I would maybe use soft-medium reeds in a box of V-12 #4(If I were using them) on the SW1.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2007-05-16 14:35
My reeds deteriorate first at the rail contacts. This can be readily seen by placing the reed on a wet solid clear plastic, such as Plexiglas, looking thru the plastic as you press the reed against it it and then releasing the pressure. The uneven surface areas of the reed are now visible. Sanding may help , but eventually, the deterioration is too severe for sanding , (I use 600 emery paper), to help. The tip of the reed is also subject to warping, which can readily be seen by taking the wet reed and placing it and holding it to line up against a similar wet, good reed. Now look straight into the tips while holding the two reeds together. If the two reed tips are in good shape the tips will touch all the way across . Otherwise, the tip ears will be curled away from each other, and one or both reeds are not likely to play well. A short-term remedy is to gently bend the curled tips back to normal flatness.
richard smith
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-05-16 16:23
Don't worry too much about sanding the backs of the reeds flat. A knife may be a better tool to use, just a small swipe to remove any "bulges" on the back of the reed. But if it's quite warped, toss it.
Balancing the tip and the rails is more important and more worth your time.
Also, check if your mouthpiece and reed are sealing properly. The concavity of your mouthpiece may be increased to make it less susceptible to losing the seal with the reed, and reed warpage won't matter as much.
Really warped reeds should be tossed.
If 4's still work pretty good for you, try those so you have some wiggle room when you balance your reeds. You can always remove material, but you can't glue it back on. Good luck
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2007-05-16 16:29
Don't hesitate to get Tom R.'s ATG system...you won't believe how good it is!
I always thought like most everyone that you should never go against the grain; but ATG is an eye opener.
It's a bit pricey but it can make reed headaches a thing of the past.
Clarinet Redux
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