 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ashley91489
Date: 2006-12-15 13:37
I need something very small and compact so I can carry it with me and fairly inexpensive as well. I also need to be able to transfer the recordings to my computer so I can import them into iTunes or copy them to a CD.
Thanks!
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2006-12-15 14:47
Try the Sony Hi-MD minidisc recorder/player. I bought mine on the Sony website. Runs a little over $300, but a very handy practice tool and useful for recorded auditions. It comes with a USB cable to connect to the computer, and software to upload the files. But then you have to use a 3rd-party software like Windows Media Player to convert the files to .wav for an audio CD. I had been stuck for months trying to figure out how to get the files to an audio CD so it could be played on any machine that reads CD-R's. My husband, of all people, finally figured it out using Windows Media Player.
Hope this helps.
-Lori
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2006-12-15 15:09
Be aware - the Sony HiMD only allows a ONE TIME upload...I found this out the hard way...
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-12-15 15:17
I don't like the Sony MD because you need to use their software and their format. I use an iRiver but an older model, it has 40GB of space and can record easily by connecting a microphone. It is laos a disk-on-key type hard drive, so after you record you can just connect to the computer with a USB cable (included) and it is just like another hard drive. No special software. It records to quality of MP3 at 320kbps which is very good, and most can't notice the difference compared with WAV. I understand there is some free open source firmware that will allow to record to WAV but I haven't tried it yet.
I'm not necessarily recommending this specific iRiver, but in general I like the hard drive type players. iAudio is also good afaik. Probably there are more.
If you are interested in hearing the quality of this iRiver, in this thread Music Clips you can go to the link I gave to the page with my music clips - the third one called Improvisation is recorded with the iRiver and the tiny microphone that came with it (which I thought was a stereo microphone but the recording was mono so I don't know).
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2006-12-15 15:27
It all depends how much money you have to spend. If you are going to record yourself at home, the Samson C01U USB microphone is a bargain ($75). Simply plug in your USB port on your computer and your are ready to go.
After that they are simply too many options, my advice is to get a decent audio interface for about $200 and save money to buy nice microphones.
If you are going to record yourself on the road, th cheapest deal is a sony minidisk recorder and microphone, that will bring you to about $200. I don't recommend it the sound is not so hot and minidiscs are ancient technology that does not make any sense.
Next up is the zoom H4 which sounds quite good at $300, the 128MB memory card provided will not store a lot of music (about 2hours in MP3 format, 25mn in raw uncompressed).
Then you have the M-Audio MicroTrack ($350), similar to zoom H4, a little smaller, and with an even small memory card (64MB). Not very popular.
After that, you have the Edirol R09 for $400, very similar to the zoom H4, a little smaller, and with an even small memory card (64MB). Quite popular and a little better built than the Zoom and M-Audio
Finally you can splurge on the Sony PCM-D1. At $2000, it does the same as the other three, but just much better (has 4G of memory, better mikes, better ergonomics,...)
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: ZCClarinet
Date: 2006-12-15 16:58
Merlin and Sylvain (and anyone else),
I've been looking at that Zoom H4, thinking about getting it for recording practices/lessons/recitals. As a stand alone (just using internal mics), What would you say about the quality of recording made for such applications?
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Author: hans
Date: 2006-12-15 17:44
Attachment: 18-Don'tGetAroundMuchAnymore.mp3 (1915k)
I use the Sony minidisc and did not need software other than what came with it to create *.wav files. Maybe my software is a different version....
Also, once it's in the PC and burned to CD, I erase the minidisc so that the one time upload has not caused me any problems.
I find the quality of the unit and its recording ability to be excellent, but the controls are not very intuitive. Mine is ~6 months old and I understand that the controls have been modified in later iterations of this unit.
I've attached a sample MP3 recording from a performance of the band I play with. The unit was placed in a less-than-ideal location on a dinner table so that there is some interference from conversation, people walking in front of the microphone, etc.
Hans
Post Edited (2006-12-15 17:50)
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2006-12-15 18:13
wow that is an awesome recording. It has a very full and clean stereo sound that offers good bass playback. But at $300, that is a tad pricey. I'm guessing your looking for something like a mini usb pen to throw into your case that doesn't weigh like a brick. Shouldn't a pro microphone suffice to capture the sound?
something tells me you get what you pay for....
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
Post Edited (2006-12-15 18:20)
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2006-12-15 18:33
A good pro mic is 1000, so for $300 this is a bargain.
I would be careful with the recording of the guitar, the dynamic range of a guitar is not as wide as a clarinet and it may make a difference in the quality of a recording once you blast these high notes in Weber concerti...
-S
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
Post Edited (2006-12-16 03:16)
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Author: MC
Date: 2006-12-21 12:32
I went through this same search a few months ago. My minidisc recorder bit the dust, and I needed a good replacement. I checked out Sony's newest minidisc recorders, the MicroTrack, and the Edirol R09. Ended up buying the Edirol R09, and have been very pleased with it. It's small enough to toss in my case, and the internal mic is surprisingly good. I thought I'd need to attach an external mic to get a decent recording, but that's turned out not to be the case. So far I've used the device to record my own practice sessions, trio (clarinet/oboe/bassoon) rehearsals and a recital, and my mandolin lessons (decided I needed to learn a new instrument...). I've been pleased with the results.
Post Edited (2006-12-21 12:32)
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Author: Pathik
Date: 2007-04-25 14:43
Has anyone on this BB tried recording clarinet on the Zoom H4 recorder (or a digital recorder of similar quality)? I am looking for something to use when recording myself (for practice purposes) and any performance I might happen to take part in, and was wondering if the Zoom H4 might be suitable. So far I've only tried recording myself with a cheap mic plugged into my computer, and the result was absolutely atrocious (I mean as far as sound quality goes). Maybe clarinet is especially difficult to record? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2007-04-25 15:04
Check this website out, it has great descriptions and reviews of the different portable recorders, with sound bites for each of them:
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/
Based on what is there I would pick the edirol R09, but all are pretty nice.
Disclaimer: Although I have no financial ties with the website, the owner is my friend.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
Post Edited (2007-04-25 15:10)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-04-25 15:33
Other options, both of which supply phantom power for 2 external mics if needed. Both record in variety of modes, incl wav. files:
Roland CD2 allows recording onto CDR and onto Compact Flash....about
$590 USD from the discounters. I got mine for a bargain at a "going out of biz sale" It is easy to use, easy to edit, and allows 2 external mics, internal mics, external audio signals, etc to be added.
It will also copy the CF to CD after editing.
Drawbacks.....the ubiquitous wall wart voltage source....will NOT run on batteries. Line-in volume for ext. audio is back of unit. Plus side....controls are easy to use and to see.
Marantz PMD670 about $670 records from internal mics, external mics, etc onto CF card. USB connection can attach to computer for editing.
Runs on voltage AC wall wart, or via internal batteries (AA or optional charging pack).
Drawback....viewing screen is set on the narrow side of the case and is harder to see. Repairs by Superscope are costly. Mine needed a new processor card at $250 (2 yrs off warranty)...ouch.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2007-04-26 04:37
Buy a ZOOM H4, it's the best in inexpensive digital recorder, and goes directly into iTunes or any CD format. Cost? About $300...!
Check it out at:
http://www.zoom.co.jp
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Pathik
Date: 2007-04-26 09:45
Thanks for the link to Wingfield Audio. This web site turned out to be very useful for finding out more about digital recorders, and the sound samples are great - I was amazed at the sound quality of the cello recordings made by Stephanie Wingfield. She has told me in an email that she plans to put more sound samples on the web site soon, including recordings of clarinet. She also mentioned that Zoom is supposed to be coming out with a new, smaller, less-featured recorder for under $200 - the Zoom H2, possibly sometime later this year. You can read about it here:
http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1916&brandID=4
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2007-04-26 18:50
I bought a Fostex recorder with microphone from wwbw.com for about 250 and it does a nice job. Can even add reverb and some other effects. Once you make the recording you transfer it to your computer through the USB port and then burn the files (songs) to a disk. The sound quality is pretty good.
Leonard
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-04-27 11:35
"possibly sometime later this year"
Reportedly in May..
Bob Draznik
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-04-27 15:07
These are all good choices.
Zoom 4 as a backup recorder? You bet:
I witnessed a highly respected recording person who showed up for a live session with 2 Schoeps mics (mucho dinero), a mackie onynx preamp/mixer, and an alesis HD recorder....PLUS he had a ZOOM 4 plugged into the outputs of the mixer just to be sure he had a spare recorder.
Better safe than sorry.
The new H2 looks cool. If it is built anything like the new Samson Ribbon mics, definitely worth investigating. It eliminates the XLR inputs but adds an additional internal mic.
New "zero bit" technology units are also being introduced.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2007-05-05 20:00
The same here, I'm going to buy a Zoom 4 in the very near future. Good sound and not to expensive!
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Author: Pathik
Date: 2007-05-06 10:02
Sylvain,
the sound samples on the wingfieldaudio.com web site are great, and to my ears the Zoom H4 sounds best. I didn't quite understand from the explanation on the web site what settings you'd used to record them (bit rate/sample rate, wav or MP3). Do you know which settings were used on the Zoom H4? I'm asking because I've just bought one myself, but so far haven't been able to figure out the best settings for recording clarinet. The highest bit rate/sampling rate produces wav files that no program on my computer can play, so it looks like I can't use that.
Pathik
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2007-05-06 14:25
Pathik,
The Edirol, MicroTrack, Sony and Zoom stereo samples were originally recorded as 24-bit/44.1Mhz wav files. She then converted them to mp3.
It is interesting that most people like the H4. My experience is that it "colors" the sound a little more than the other. In other words, although it sounds good it is not quite the same as what came out of my clarinet. The "truest" to my performance are the Sony and Korg.
All things considered, sound, size, battery life, ease of use, I woudl probably buy the Edirol.
-S
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
Post Edited (2007-05-06 14:26)
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2007-05-06 16:44
Very simply put:
The ZOOM H4 records the clarinet and other live instruments very accurately, it far surpasses any older recordings I've done on any of my many Sony Walkman recorders and the like.
It's ease of use, and it's compatible with a USB to any PC or Mac, then easily transferable to a CD format, cannot be matched for the price.
I have used the H4 on many recording dates, at in live Broadway pits, and the results have been totally professional.
For under $300, I wish the unit had been available 10 years ago, and I would have saved a lot of money on expensive tape decks, DAT recorders, MD players, etc. It's good new technology. Go for it.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2007-05-06 21:44
Listening to the Sony and the H4 back to back makes me feel that the H4 may be picking up natural echo of sound in the room that the Sony isn't picking up. It's very nice (the H4).
Perhaps if you recorded in a very dead room and a very live room one may see if one worked better depending on the environment.
Regards,
Stephen Kaupiko
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2007-05-06 21:58
sylvangale,
The room was very dead, and the Sony made a recording truer to the sound in the room. The H4 adds some reverb/color to the sound which explains the somewhat more "lively" sound. It especially striking in the cello sample where the H4 smoothes out some of the higher frequency harmonics whereas the sony sounds drier. Surprisingly, the difference in recording are less prominent when recording a clarinet than a cello. Probably my sound is simply not as rich in harmonics.
If you are a sound snob then getting the Sony makes sense. On the other hand it is $2000 vs. $300 for the H4. Sounds like the backun/Behn $600 mouthpiece vs. $50 Vandoren dilemma....
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-05-07 16:04
The other good thing about the H4 is the microphone system. I've always had to purchase high dollar microphones (ones that cost more than the H4) to get a good quality recording. The fact that the H4 is so portable and comes with good mics is a big plus for me. I've been looking for a good system to replace my old one (attached to a Peavey amp). Getting too old to lug around big stuff anymore.
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Author: michinoku
Date: 2007-05-07 18:31
I use the sony Hi-MD recorder, and one of the nice things about it is how it divides and organizes the files for you as you are recording them. This way, you can bypass the software altogether, and use a direct line-out to export the audio, which can be done with a number of programs that are free on either mac or PC. The software is ok, but a little slow and prone to crashing.
My other bid for it is that it really, really picks up ensemble/group/band music really well, whether or not it is amplified. You may not want to record your recital with it, but you get a lot of distinct texture with group recordings, in my experience.
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2007-05-08 01:50
ZOOM H4 does "sound on sound" and digital 4 track, in addition to the standard 2 track. I don't see, in the specs, that the M-Audio Microtrack 24/96 can do that???
I haven't seen anyone here in NYC with the M-Audio Microtrack 24/96, but the
ZOOM H4 has been used, with great success, by quite a few of us.
You choose...
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2007-05-08 22:07
The M-audio Microtrack is strictly two tracks, uncompressed WAV's or MP3. Uses Compact Flash Cards (newegg.com had 4Gb cards for $31.99 a while ago.) I have two cards, one for recording, and one full from my CD collection.
My guess is that this is more for the iPod users, but it still does a creditable job with live audio. On the other hand, the WAV files it produces won't play on any of the PC's I have tried them on, unless converted with the supplied software.
Post Edited (2007-05-08 22:08)
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The Clarinet Pages
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