 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: eastsax
Date: 2007-04-26 23:39
Hi. i've just purchased a (rather oldish clanky) Clemens Wurlitzer Clarinet. i wanted a boehm system clarinet to play with a German bore without spending stupid money. i payed £370 (700 us or 540 euros). good price or have i been fleeced? does anyone know these instruments? the serial number is in the 11200s. i'd be interested as to it's age and reputation with pro players. i'm a UK pro sax player doubling. i think it'll play nicely when overhauled. i love that German sound! no mouthpiece with it though. my semer C85 seems ok on it (with some packing!) though should i be purchasing a german bore m/p to avoid intonation issues?
thanks for any advice.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-27 10:44
German mouthpieces will have a wider tenon than Boehms, so it's best to get a German mouthpiece for it. Vandoren do a few German mputhpieces (make sure you get the 'W' tenon, the 'S' tenon is narrower) and if you want to go the whole hog, then there's Viotto mouthpieces.
Use Vandoren White Master reeds for these mouthpieces, and it's up to you if you want to use a BG or Rovner fabric ligature (don't use metal ones with German mouthpieces) or string. The braided cord used on Venetian blinds is the right diameter - though any braided cord between 1.5mm and 2mm will work.
Clemens Wurlitzer clarinets aren't of the same quality as Fritz or Herbert Wurlitzer ones, but should be a good place to start if you want to try German bore clarinets. I remember Bill Lewington had a pair of full Oehler system C. Wurlitzers for around £1600 - I was tempted, but skint at the time.
There is a player in Eastbourne with a pair of Fritz Wurlitzer reform Boehms - and these are definitely the ones to go for.
Have you got any photos of it?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: eastsax
Date: 2007-04-27 12:39
thanks for your reply Chris.
yes i think the quality is a bit lower than i'd expect (considering how much they are new these days) for a hand made instrument but then this may be a really old one. it looks well used. the tone holes are rather lop sided and unsemetrical which could be the fault of an under qualified repair man i guess. i hope this doesn't cause me problems.
also noticed that the leather white pads seem a bit thick - the rings aren't sitting as low as they should be. do the Germans ever use fish skin?
re mouthpieces i was hoping i could stick with French reeds and general m/p specs. the manufactorer informed me by email that French or German m/p are ok as long as the bore is German. not quite sure whether the size of tenon is the main issue or the bore or the whole m/p dimension and size - does a smaller read generate a higher frequency?? if it's only a tenon issue i'm sure there are ways around it such as a thicker layer of cork on the m/p?
i notice Piilinger seems to offer some interesting variations as well as a German style - ...
1010 Large bore. Three models; Vintage 1930s (based on Boosey & Co. models), middle period and modern. Primarily for use with
Boosey and Hawkes 1010 and Luis Rossi (large bore) clarinets.
926 For B&H 926 clarinets. Used by some player on French bore clarinets. This mouthpiece improves the intonation and tonal properties of many C clarinets. This model with the bore enlarged makes an excellent 1010 bore mouthpiece.
R Larger than standard French bore. Incorporates a special slipway and reed table angle which impart roundness and clarity to the tone or bright and clear without harshness. Many players find this mouthpiece enhances the playing properties of instruments such as the Buffet R13, improving the tone and projection of notes in the throat region. It may be necessary to use a shorter barrel length (63mm-65mm). Clarinets are often supplied with a shorter barrel within this range. As with the 926, it can also enhance the tone and improve the intonation of C clarinets.
Post Edited (2007-04-27 12:51)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-27 13:17
German mouthpieces are longer than French mouthpieces, so if you use a 1010 mouthpiece (which is shorter than a standard French mouthpiece) you will have to pull the barrel out a fair amount - you might find the pitch of this clarinet could be around the 443-444Hz as well, though if it is tuned to 440Hz - all the better.
Also, German clarinets, players and makers generally use white leather pads - and usually of the thick, squishy type as found on bassoons. But you can get firm white leather pads - I like Glotin white leather pads as they're firm and relatively thin in comparison to standard bassoon pads - and much better in terms of longevity than skin pads.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2007-04-27 13:30)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-27 13:23
Just loking at the photos, it's a good specification - 18 keys and 7 rings.
You have the forked Bb mechanism on the top joint allowing you to play Eb or Bb as a forked fingering (xox|ooo) instead of using the side key or long Bb fingering, which makes diminished 7th arpeggios starting on low F#, A and C easier, Ab-Bb trills easier (play Ab and trill LH finger 2 only).
And also the LH Ab/Eb lever which means all the Rh pinky keys are duplicated for the LH pinky, so you can get around some tricky configurations without having to slide your RH pinky.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: eastsax
Date: 2007-04-27 21:14
hi chris. thanks for this info.
had a good play this afternoon. it does seem to be tuned a bit higher. the barrel is 55mm so maybe purchase of a slightly longer one would be a good idea. i guess it would have to be from C. wurlitzer? i imagine that the longer the barrel the more the instrument's relative intonation is compromised though?
i also tried a yamaha german m/p on it as well that came with a yamaha student Oehler system i got hold of recently (which is why i ended up deciding to stick with the Boehm system). don't get on with it though. being primarily a sax player i like the B45 and more open m/pieces. do you know of an equivelant german m/p? i imagine there must be a lot of guys who double in Germany as well.
i also found the auxiliary fingerings unsatisfactory re tembre and tuning. maybe the different bore means there are some alternative fingerings for the top end?
anyway i've a gig tomorrow. there are a couple of excellent (elderly) doublers in the section. i'll take it along and try to get them to play it as well.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-27 21:25
Any German barrel will work - I'd suggest a 57 or 58mm so you still have some degree of tuning flexibility (I made a 59mm one for my Yamaha Oehler system as the 54 and 56mm stock ones are too short for me).
Harald Hueyng offers various makes and lengths of German barrels http://www.hueyng.de/shop/pi1175882895.htm?categoryId=103
But German mouthpieces generally have a close tip and long lay (Austrian ones even closer still!), and for that German sound I reckon it's best finding the right mouthpiece/reed combination. Even though you play on a B45, you should really go for a more resistant setup on German bore clarinets to get that thick sound.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2007-04-27 21:30)
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Author: eastsax
Date: 2007-04-27 21:40
great link. what a lot of barrels! i found that the yamaha Oehler 54mm barrel was too short for the wurlitzer tennon though. are they normally different dimensions?
just found this..
http://www.saxplus.com/vandoren-clarinet-mpc-info.html
interesting. i ought to mention i'm mainly playing jazz and eastern european folk music. so am really going for a different kind of sound to the chamber players, great though they sound. might give the VD4 a blast next time i'm over there though.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-27 21:50
The lower barrel sockets and upper top joint tenons will vary from make to make (even on French clarinets), though the mouthpiece sockets are relatively standard in depth and diameter - around 24.8mm in diameter on Yamaha, Wurlitzer and Uebel.
Here's a good list of German clarinet makers:
http://www.cs.ru.nl/~bolke/DuitseKlar/oehlerlistOld.html
I hear a lot of good reviews of Schwenk&Seggelke as well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2007-04-27 21:53)
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