 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2007-04-25 11:29
Not a clarinet question but many of you doublers out there may have experienced something similar.
My wonderful Selmer 80 SA serie 2 tenor neck angle is making me tilt my head up and protrude my lower jaw causing TMJ strain problems. This makes it harder to see the page without stooping. ALSO ...I can't have my tenor by my side as this throws my spinal muscles into cramp (from a back injury). So I have to play it in front of me. The solution I think is having a higher angle of the m/p so that I can tilt my forehead forward and my chin down.
Can I get necks with different angles ?? not necessarily Selmer, but compatible ?
OR, can I get my own Selmer neck tweaked up at the m/p end? #I appreciate this is prob not recommended.
Any help appreciated.
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Author: Buster Brown
Date: 2007-04-25 11:52
Try the Sax on the Web forum. If you search there, I expect you'll find the answer. Link is www.saxontheweb.com .
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Author: Mike Clarinet
Date: 2007-04-25 11:58
Your ISP is in Oxford, England. I know this means nothing about your geographical location, but if you are in Oxford, you can get to Dawkes in Maidenhead. They may be able to help you. Their web address is http://www.dawkes.co.uk
(Disclaimer: no link to Dawkes except as a satisfied customer).
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-04-25 12:08
btw, stupid question, but can't you change the location (height, position) of the music ?
Myself, I learned ages ago in performance to have the stand down and to my left side. So I can actually read music that is quite low and to the side. Weird thing is it's normally to my left and low and my left eye can't read music (too fuzzy) by itself. But I somehow can read it w/o issues.
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2007-04-25 17:26
Steve, not a stupid question at all, but it's all linked to my back situation. Changing the height of the stand would not change the relationship between the body of the sax and the angle of mouthpiece which is the main problem. I have in fact altered the m/s height considerably, to no good effect. Thanks for the thought though.
Have looked at SOTW but as a greenhand there I don't find I can home in easily on a specific thread and I don't have the search facility down yet. Thanks for the link and I'll go there.
Mike, yes, today my ISP is Oxford..... I'm in n/e Scotland in reality. Thanks too.
BobT
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-25 18:10
My ISP says USA, though I'm in right on the South Coast of West Sussex - UK!
Do you know anyone that could bend the crook to a better angle for you? They'll need to fill it with Fry's metal (or similar low melting point alloy - melts in boiling water) so it doesn't collapse during bending.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2007-04-25 19:26
Bob,
There are times when I play my tenor in the front rather than the side.
Have you tried sitting more forward in your chair and then position your tenor (pulling the bottom of the horn toward you) so your head is in a more comfortable position? I had to do something similar to this with my old bass clarinet in using a neck strap.
A repair tech needs to be very careful in changing the angle of a saxophone neck from its original design.
Roger
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2007-04-25 20:41
Chris,
I think I'll plumb all other things before tweaking my original neck. Thanks however for the technical cautions..... they're well noted.
and Roger,
Yep, have experimented with many seating positions some better than others but no panacea yet.
Through Steve (above) have sent email to Oleg who make a tenor crook that might just be the grail I'm looking for.
Keep you posted.
Speaking to my tech tonight, it might be reasonable to map shapes of tenor necks relating to manufacturer, if this is a common(ish) problem. The greatest variations of playing position in saxes, do seem to be tenor saxes, so there may be a little mileage in that, however I'll keep that for yet another retirement job !
Bob
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Author: William
Date: 2007-04-25 21:59
Do not try to use a clarinet embouchure angle for the sax. The sax mouthpiece should protrude straight out from your mouth, not angled down as in clarinet. To acheive this angle, playing the sax in front is ok, just be certain to push the right hand thumb rest out in front of you and resist the urge most beginning sax players have to let it hang back. I would describe that proper angle to be practically 90 degrees with the sax, when you are standing, to be vertical to the ground and in front of you. When sitting and looking down at music--like those terrible old fashioned big band music stands with the band logo on the front--you need to lean forward at the waist and tilt your whole body so the mouthpiece angle retains its 90 degree position. You may twist the mouthpiece itself to a more comfortable position on the neck--mine goes to the right.
I do assume that your neckstrape is sufficiently tight so that you are not bringing the mouthpiece up to your mouth. It should come naturally to your mouth by simply pushing your r-h thumb forward. Hope this all helps--sax can be a lot of fun (yes, my spelling is accurate :>)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2007-04-26 00:37
Hi,
Interesting discussion. I play the tenor and alto in front when seated but have not had any of problem that bob49T has experienced.
However, I think a workable temporary set of possibilities might be found by using the strap for security but then trying a series of books/boxes as what the sax is rested on. By moving the support closer or further and also experimenting with different heights, the best angle might be achieved easily.
When I played bass sax many years ago at Interlochen (each sax player had a week of the duty), an oboe case set under the bow achieved the right angle. As I recall, the oboist who provided the case was a babe which was bonus.
HRL
PS Buster Brown, how's the golf. I think about you and county band a lot.
Post Edited (2007-04-26 11:32)
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Author: DezzaG
Date: 2007-04-26 05:45
William, wouldn't your technique result in the player having thumb/arm porblems such as tendonitis(sp)?
I definately have not taught this angle to my students, the neckstrap takes the weight not your arm!
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Author: D
Date: 2007-04-26 16:22
I've never played tenor sax, alto causes me enough problems. but have you tried a harness rather than a sling? This might enable you more wiggle room to get a comfortable angle. Perhaps a large music shop which has several versions would allow you to try a few out.
Or, have you tried the rather more drastic option of putting a peg on the bottom of the tenor so you can rest it on the floor. I have never heard of anyone doing this, but they stick them on bass clarinets which I should think are about the same weight.
Or perhaps a different mouthpiece with a different lay and opening would allow you to play with a different jaw angle.
Personally I find the clarinet mouth angle comfortable and the sax one almost intolerable. Which is kind of odd because I've been playing sax for 7 years longer so it should be the other way round.
Have you thought about visiting a large music store which has different makes of tenor and would let you sit and try them to see if the angle is different. Because it might be that it doesn't help at all, and it would be best to know now rather than before someone alters then neck of your Selmer!
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2007-04-26 17:05
D.......Thanks for your thoughts. No-one's stretching my neck unless all other depths have been plumbed. Have got a harness which helps but is not the panacea I seek. RSI is definitely a problem for me, so pushing the sax AWAY is not going to cut it.
William.... thanks for your input, have been down that route too. I play sop and alto with no problem and CAN get intruments into good position. Only the tenor poses this problem.
Bob
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2007-04-26 17:09
You might try contacting Phil Barone:
http://www.philbarone.com/
He makes customized saxophone necks though I don't know if he can customize the angle for you. His stuff isn't cheap but it might be worth asking.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Buster Brown
Date: 2007-04-26 17:59
Hank, just came back from winning my flight in a match play tournament. I got down 5 holes on the front and come back to win 1 up. Life is wonderful! With music, golf and a few other diversions, what more could a man want (other than a tenor saxophone that can be held on the side).
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Author: William
Date: 2007-04-26 21:03
DezzaG wrote: "the neckstrap takes the weight not your arm!"
Yes, that is correct. What I mean't to say was the thumb pushes the sax forward--not up--so that the mouthpiece approaches the mouth straight on, almost a 90 degree angle. The entire weight of the sax is born by the neckstrap. Sorry if I wasn't clear on this.
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