 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2006-11-22 23:48
http://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/stories/2006/11/20/daily27.html
excerpt
Guitar Center Inc. has signed an asset purchase agreement to buy substantially all of the assets of The Woodwind & The Brasswind through its bankruptcy, the company said Wednesday.
Under the agreement, which is subject to bankruptcy court approval and overbid at a bankruptcy auction expected in January 2007, Guitar Center will buy The Woodwind & The Brasswind's inventory of band and orchestra and combo instruments, accounts receivable, trade names and certain other intangible assets. Terms of the transaction were not disclosed.
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Author: KristinVanHorn
Date: 2006-11-22 23:55
So I ordered some legere reeds from this company and so how is this going to effect me since i already payed for the reeds. I thought is was strange that I have been waiting soooo! long for the reeds and haven't seen them yet.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2006-11-23 00:26
Holy crap! This is a huge empire that just got bought over! Hopefully guitar center will be able to maintain wwbw without pulling itself under.
never saw that coming.... although their prices didn't seem like they generated much profit on their end.
"Guitar Center will buy The Woodwind & The Brasswind's inventory"
It's like charles bay buying chedevilles mpc blanks.
time to buy some shares in guitar center....
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-11-23 01:19
c2thew said
<<It's like charles bay buying chedevilles mpc blanks.>>
I know that many of his mouthpieces used these blanks, but did he obtain them as an inventory buyout, or is the statement an analogy, or does it have some additional backstory?
I would ask Mr Bay directly, but I have my own backstory with him, and chose not to pursue that route.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2006-11-23 04:00
I ordered reeds sometime last week and they arrived Saturday. Given the news, I feel lucky. If you pay for something and the company goes chapter 7 bankrupt, then technically you become a creditor. If you file a claim, you get something, but it may amount to only pennies on the dollar.
Chapter 11 is different since the company continues to operate, which means take & fill orders. So I think there is less risk. That said, what say the lawyers on the list?
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Author: frank
Date: 2006-11-23 09:25
Does not surprise me either. Their business has flat out sucked for years now. Back orders, lost orders, lies about lost orders, poor customer service. One they got too big for their britches and ultimately, too arrogant, they started to crumble. Let the WW&BW be a lesson to future business owners on how NOT to become.
And...
Let Muncy Winds be a lesson on how to sucessfully operate and stay in business. Great attention to detail, great customer service, prompt orders filled.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-11-23 14:25
The fact that WW/BW, one of the largest suppliers of instruments and supplies in the USA, is having serious financial difficulty, further shows how perilously thin the profit margin is on musical instruments and accessories...GBK
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-11-23 14:38
Does this apply to Music123?
They seem to have some connection to WWBW.
Also, note that WWBW recently moved to bigger digs, did they not?
I wonder if this was an overextension of debt, or a means of sweetening a buyout.
Under the thread of "why did Ched. go under" I mentioned that corporate entities suffer from apoptosis. I guess this applies here.
OTOH.....HAPPY BIRD DAY.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2006-11-23 14:42
WWBW moved to a bigger facility either last year or the year before. I also heard that they also got a new computer system with the new warehouse which didn't seem to pan out very well (incorrect inventory, wrong shipments, etc).
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-11-23 15:03
GBK wrote:
> The fact that WW/BW, one of the largest suppliers of instruments
> and supplies in the USA, is having serious financial difficulty, further
> shows how perilously thin the profit margin is on musical instruments
> and accessories
It also shows the result of the "xy% off MSRP" policy we see everywhere. Maybe Buffet did the right thing when they fixed their prices. Maybe it's true that the resellers have to be protected from themselves.
And it shows that the customer not always profits from a competition that functions over the price alone. Lowering the cost often means cutting on service expenses, often resulting in lower customer satisfaction and cancelled orders. Some customers never return, and in order to compensate for lacking sales, lower the cost, cut down ... the classic downward spiral.
--
Ben
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-11-23 17:19
This is indeed sad. I hope it doesn't turn out like the Brook Mays disaster. My poor son is still looking for a job in Dallas and the other ex-employees are still in a daze. What a mess.
I've been ordering things (obviously, if you read my thread about the Cadenza) from wwbw just lately and got excellent service from them. I wouldn't hesitate because they may keep everyone on while the transaction takes place. The Brook Mays employees were hoping Guitar center would buy them out because they would have kept a lot of them on. However, that wasn't the case and a liquidation company actually bought the Brook Mays inventory. Guitar center is a better option and gives me some hope.
There's so little profit on musical instruments these days since the internet came into play in the pricing of things. Regular music stores couldn't charge full retail for instruments anymore because people went online and got the cheaper prices. I know this was a blow to a personal friend of mine who owned a local music store here for about 60 years. All the undercutting of prices on the internet caused them to decide to take a sell out offer.
Everyone, however, enjoyed the cheaper prices while they lasted.
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Author: sherman
Date: 2006-11-23 17:42
Brenda:
Does this mean that 123 Music is also finished? I know the readership will like to know and you seem to be appraised.
Thank you,
Sherman Friedland
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Author: Clariphant in Bb
Date: 2006-11-23 17:49
WWBW/Music123 was the only place that sold the John Pierce mouthpiece... I hope it's not discontinued :(
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Author: William
Date: 2006-11-23 18:11
Like fewer and fewer patrons attending live band and symphony concerts, the demise of live combo gigs to disc jockeys and cut backs in school music programs everywhere, these reported failures of wind instrument stores are unfortunately just more "signs of the times" we wind instrumentalist are now living in. The perfection and availability of recorded (often synthesized) music these days is hard to compete with and the audiencies we do attract seem to be "aging out". What to do?? Perhaps one of you has the answer..........wish I did.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-11-23 18:13
Dr. Segal: music123 = wwbw same company
I order from Muncy Winds, Weiner Music, and Prowinds.
Prowinds looks like they recently expanded their website.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: allencole
Date: 2006-11-23 18:43
I would not get too worried too quick. This is not Guitar Center's first purchase of music stores that handle band and orchestra instruments.
I teach at a music store which is part of a chain purchased by Guitar Center in the last couple of years. This chain of 'normal' music stores is still operating largely as it did before, and I have seen no mention of "Guitar Center" in anything.
If anything, we are stocking more in the way of step-up instruments and good instructional books. Another thing that I've noticed is no-interest financing of step-up instruments over either six months or a year. I have also seen a more concerted effort to keep track of the local schools, who their music directors are, and what they require for their students.
Our stores appear to have good automony, and WWBW may be granted the same, or may be folded into this other stucture.
I am not a spokesman for these stores and there is plenty that I don't know, but I am seeing no move to turn the store into a rock & roll center. (our city already has an actual Guitar Center location) If anything, I see improvement on MY side of the fence.
I have only one fear from this purchase, and that is the spectre of having to tell local customers that "MY students play BARRINGTON" cso's. As for all the WWBW 'consultants' who have engaged in this practice--I truly hope that their jobs are the first to be cut.
Allen Cole
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-11-23 18:47
allencole wrote:
> I would not get too worried too quick. This is not Guitar
> Center's first purchase of music stores that handle band and
> orchestra instruments.
Guitar Center is not purchasing WW & BW. They are purchasing the inventory of WW & BW. It's a section 363 sale of assets.
WW & BW will be no more ...
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2006-11-24 03:05
I am extremely sad over this news.
I thought Guitar Center was taking over ww & bw...to think that ww & bw will be no more is upsetting.
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Author: packrat
Date: 2006-11-24 05:11
Upsetting is right! I placed an ordered for a brass horn for my husband for a surprise Christmas present, but there was a chance that it wouldn't be in until the end of Jan. Thankfully no money has changed hands yet. So I guess I had better look for a new dealer. I'm grateful for the heads up. I'll call tomorrow or Monday and see if I can get any info.
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2006-11-24 12:19
It is an unfortunate occurrence, but not totally unforseen, sort of following in the footsteps of other big-boxes that over-expanded.
I have purchased from both WWB and Guitar Center in the last year and the experience for both was acceptable. My last visit to WWBW's store was almost exactly two years ago, and the last GC visit was last week. The differences between the stores are dramatic. GC was crammed full of merchandise, floor to ceiling. WWBW's store in South Bend is huge with wide aisles, small displays, and lots of unused space.
While we can say that this follows a pattern of business overexpansions, it is still troubling. This looks pretty the same as when Home Quarters put a lot of mom & pop hardware stores out of business and then went belly-up themselves. Around here, most of their old buildings are still vacant.
The smart businesses, who successfully evaded HQ and the other big box stores, are smart and cagy. They have found their own niche and cling to it tenaciously. One local hardware store dropped lawn furniture, mower repairs, screen repairs, kitchen ware, and then drew back to their core nuts-and-bolts business at a new nearby location with 25% of their original floor space. They are going strong, but other nearbuy businesses who clung to their old models are not.
One day, maybe a year ago, I walked into a Guitar Center with my clarinet and mouthpiece pickup to try out guitar effects processors. Their staff of R&R guys tried to brush me off. But then, once I was hooked up, and they heard what I was doing, they had me pumped into a keyboard amp and I drew a crowd, which during the middle of a weekday was largely other staff members. That bunch of kids were genuinely intrigued that I was doing they considered innovative. I can't think of that kind of interest from any other store.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-11-24 14:37
The web site is still up and will accept orders?
There may be later ripple effects of WWBW going under which will include potentially higher prices for consumers. A lot of suppliers, including yours truly, will not be paid and will therefore will have to make up lost profits by raising prices (depending on competitiion in the marketplace) or by giving less discounts to other retail outlets which will result in higher prices long term.
My concern is the scarred landscape left by the loss of many small music stores that could not survive the big box store competition. There are still big box mail order stores but WWBW had a particularily harsh impact on the woodwind aspects.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-11-24 14:49
L. Omar Henderson wrote:
> The web site is still up and will accept orders?
I noticed in one of the more detailed reports that Guitar Center is offering to buy both the WW & BW site and the Music123 site - but there are no details as to what this means (whether they will be actual, active sites or just a redirect). However, the auction of assets won't be happening until January, so there may be other suitors for the assets. If there are multiple bids then suppliers might not get hit as hard.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2006-11-24 15:30
Does this mean I don't have to pay off my WWBW Card?
US Army Japan Band
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2006-11-24 16:17
Does this mean you might be able to get a good deal from them on an instrument purchase? I'm thinking of driving there from Chicago to try out the Leblanc Cadenza as well as the Yamaha SEV and CSG models. Does anyone know if they do Trades or take in used horns?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-11-24 16:22
bufclar wrote:
> Does this mean you might be able to get a good deal from them
> on an instrument purchase?
They've declared bankruptcy - their assets should be frozen by the courts until the financial situation is straigtened out.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-11-24 17:19
Mark Charette wrote:
> They've declared bankruptcy - their assets should be frozen by
> the courts until the financial situation is straigtened out.
Which of course is wrong information at this time. The asset freeze won't come about until after auction. Right now they're free to sell the inventory they have at a fair market value to try and raise as much money as possible to satisfy creditors.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2006-11-24 18:09
I just got off the phone with Scott Kurtzweil at wwbw. Don't start shoveling the dirt into their grave just yet. According to Scott, they will still be in business, but under new ownership. While I don't discount totally what everyone else has said here, you may want to hold off counting them dead in the water for the time being.
BTW... at the moment, they are out of Cadenzas, despite what their site listing says. Sorry to drop the bad news to you, Bufclar.
Jeff
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Author: LeeB
Date: 2006-11-24 19:35
Regarding Guitar Center buying out this stock, I recently noticed that the internet arm of Guitar Center, Musician's Friend, has a new (at least I hadn't seen it before) woodwind/brass instrument sister website (with completely similar web design) called "Giardinelli." It looks like that's going to be their new identification for band instruments. I wonder if there will be a brick and mortar version, too.
It's actually interesting how Guitar Center has worked the online situation so they can have a physical presence in many states, but still don't have to collect sales tax.
Lee
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-11-24 19:36
I've seen Giardinelli exist for at least one year (that's where I got my firesale Amati from...)
--
Ben
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2006-11-24 20:22
Thats ok about the cadenzas. I'm more interested in trying the Yamaha CSG and SEV models. I spoke with someone there today and they are still in business, have both Yamahas in stock and I might be able to trade in my set of R13s towards the Yamahas if I choose a pair that I really like. My R13s are less than a year old so hopefully I will get a good deal. I'm not determined to switch instruments but I am growing tired of R13s and my pair while being really nice, still leave me wanting a lot more out of an instrument. I've never been a big fan of Yamaha clarinets but I have also not tried them in years and have not tried the CSG. John Yeh sounds amazing on his SEV's and Bill Jackson sounds amazing on his CSG's. Granted they would both sound great on anything but it's enough to make me curious. It's a short drive from Chicago. I will give a report on the situation there and the instruments. I'm planning on going this Sunday if I don't have to work.
Post Edited (2006-11-24 20:23)
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-11-25 03:01
Alseq said:
<<Under the thread of "why did Ched. go under" I mentioned that corporate entities suffer from apoptosis. I guess this applies here.>>
I never thought I'd hear apoptosis and music (or even apoptosis and business) in the same phrase. Quite frankly I never thought I'd hear apoptosis in general after I left grad school!
-Randy
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Author: Imperial Zeppelin
Date: 2006-11-25 03:25
bufclar:
Last time I checked, WWBW is NOT open on Sunday and, don't forget, they are on Eastern time so you lose that hour on the trek from Chicago...
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2006-11-25 13:21
Imperial,
They are open this Sunday for the Thanksgiving weekend and I hear traffic is very light on Sunday compared to weekdays so it seems like the perfect time to go.
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Author: susieray
Date: 2006-11-25 17:57
I had been planning on ordering a set of conga drums for my son for Christmas, in fact I had the drums and a couple boxes of Rico Reserve reeds saved in my shopping cart. So I went ahead and placed the order yesterday morning. The order was processed and shipped out almost immediately by FedEx and is scheduled to arrive on Nov. 30th. So they are definitely still taking/processing orders at this time anyway.
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Author: happyflower
Date: 2006-11-26 01:06
My DH works for WWBW and yes, they do own Music 123,which used to be owned by the Zafts who was in the lawsuit against WWBW. WWBW also owns several other small companies too which will also be affected.
And yes, it looks like Guitar Center will be taking over, probably over 240 employees will lose their jobs, including my DH, and it sucks for everyone, no matter how the owner paints a pretty picture of the scene. After 60 days, he has no say in any of the matters, the new owners will. The owner's mouth and pride finally lost his business for him, but don't worry he will still retire as a multi-millionare, while some of his long time employees will get the shaft.
They are still shipping out orders if they have them in stock, but several months of being on credit hold from many vendors have left a lot of items out of stock.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-11-26 14:30
I wouldn't be afraid to do business with them. Yes,as several have mentioned, music 123 is one of woodwind and brasswind's "partner" companies. But the buying public will be the least affected by the situation. The employees will suffer the worst of it as they get laid off. My son hung on at Brook Mays until the bitter end. He kept hoping that his job would transfer to the new owner's set-up, but they let everyone at the print music company go.
Post Edited (2006-11-27 15:46)
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Author: BassClarinet21
Date: 2006-11-26 19:46
I just bought a new bass clarinet from them three weeks ago, they said it would come November 25 and now they said it will come December 10. Would this have spmething to do with that?
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-11-27 12:21
Whether or not all the information on this thread (and a similar one on the Klarinet e-list) turns out to be completely accurate, it's great to have a heads-up. I buy most of my regular supplies at a good, local store a few blocks from my house (Foxes Music in Falls Church, Virginia), but was on the verge of ordering some things I can't get there from WW&BW and am awfully glad I didn't finish filling out that order! Over the years, I've never had a serious problem with WW&BW, although a few orders apparently disappeared into the electrons. (No loss to me, since the company never charged my credit card for undelivered items, and did send the items and charge me later, after I inquired.) I'm sorry the company got itself into this mess, because WW&BW's prices were competitive, to say the least (maybe a little too competitive to give the company a sustainable profit margin).
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-11-27 15:49
If you're buying something from them, call your order in and talk to a live human. Make certain it is in stock because if it is on back order their orders may be held up by their suppliers due to their situation. Also, I would ask for overnight or 2nd day air service to get it quickly. Be sure you keep the name and extension of the sales person so you can call back.
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2006-11-27 15:52
Well I made the short drive from Chicago to Southbend yesterday and I have to say it was not a great experience. I am convinced that the main reason that WWBW is going under is because of the complete lack of quality customer service. Let the venting begin:
1. The guy that helped me told me that the instruments I wanted to try were not in stock even though the web site said they were. He also said Yamaha does not make and SEV A clarinet because it was not printed in the catalogue.
2. After I corrected him on these things, I told him that I would really like to have a room to try out the horns where it is quiet and seeing that they have like 14 practice rooms to try stuff out in, I did not think it would be a problem. Sure enough I had 2 junior high level students and a highschool student sat right next to my room trying out a Bari Sax, A tenor sax, and a trombone. Normally I would not care about that but when trying out top of the line clarinets with the intent to purchase, it would be nice to have my tunner tell me what my instrument is doing and not the next room over.
3. One of the clarinets had a bit of debris in one of the tone holes and so I asked the same guy who helped me if anyone was around that could remove it. There wasn't which was fine but then the guy started to argue with me saying that debris in a tone hole has no effect and I should not worry about it.
At this point I was ready to leave and would have had I not drove for an hour and a half.
4. One of the B flat clarinets I tried was a real keeper and so I stayed interested. None of the A clarinets were all that great so I asked to try more. The guy said he will have another one brought into my room. I sat in my room with the door open waiting for the clarinet and I overheard a conversation I still cant believe. The girl who brings the clarinet to me said to the guy "why is he trying another clarinet of the same model" and the guy said "I have no idea" and then she said "Oh, so he is one of those" and the guy said "well we have like 3 more but if he asks for another I'm going to tell him that is all we have".
I could not believe the attitude and ignorance of these people. Maybe it was people that don't usually work woodwinds and it was Sunday so maybe they were new but because of their horrible service they just lost a sale. I wanted the B flat and was just trying to find an A that was the same model and as good and they shut me down.
Now I am not a famous clarinet player but I do have a masters with honors, have played professionaly, study with John Bruce Yeh who is a Yamaha Artist and drove over 90 miles to try out some horns and it sure would have been nice to get treated with just a bit of respect as all customers should!
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Author: Imperial Zeppelin
Date: 2006-11-27 16:18
Interesting experience...
I can honestly say that we never had the problems that you had and our last trek from Chicagoland was last April. It's quite probable that they didn't have the "A Team" out there since the Sunday opening is a total aberration to their normal schedule where they close early on Saturday (3:00 PM, I think) and never open on Sunday.
The practice room problem is another one that we never encountered. The rooms that we were placed in were always sufficiently shielded so the tuners could lock in on our instrument. The last time there were 2 players and an instructor going through alto saxes in the room next door and the previous time we had a tenor or bari sax on one side and a trumpet on the other with no issues. I'm totally befuddled by your experience.
The one thing that I have learned that if you're driving out there, you call the woodwind department couple of days before and ask them to pull the instruments from the warehouse to have them ready for you. There are times when the internet site says instruments are available, but they really are not. This prevents a long journey for no result. Conversely, there have been times when the internet says an instrument is not available, but when you call, there are some. I have never trusted interent "inventories" when it comes to the long trek to Indiana...
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-11-27 16:21
Wow, that's just a terrible experience. You should report those people to the manager. Call back to the store and do that right away. They may not have their best people on on Sunday and they may have an "attitude" about working on Sunday, but that is no excuse. It's been an accepted practice with wwbw for years to send out more than one mouthpiece, barrel or instrument for people to try. They even suggest it. That's ridiculous. I'm so sorry you had that experience.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-11-27 16:52
Unless he has moved on, ask to speak with Mr. Kurzweil who is the woodwind advisor for them. He plays Yamaha horns himself.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2006-11-27 17:48
I did call in advance to find out about the inventory and thats why I new they had them in stock. I asked if I should make an appointment and they said to just come in because it will be real slow on Sunday. I thought about calling Mr. Kurzweil but I'm not really that bent out of shape about it. I just wanted to share my experience with all of you. I would be more upset if I were a player with a position in an ensemble but since that has not happened yet, I just want to remain humble and go with the flow. It was very bad service and I'm glad that not everyone has the same experience.
I'm a little on the fence about switching from Buffet to Yamaha but I did think the SEV's were very nice instruments. The last time I tried a yamaha was around 1995-1996 and I can say they have come a long way since then! Both of my R13's are less than a year old and they are good instruments but I find myself fighting them a lot to play in tune and maintain an even sound. The Yamahas took a lot less work to get the quality of playing I strive for. I have played buffet my whole life and so switching to a new brand is a hard decision for me to make....sort of like breaking up with a girl that you have been with a long time. The relationship isn't bad but at the same time deep down you know it's not going anywhere.
What to Do, What to Do?
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-11-27 17:51
"What to Do, What to Do?"
Try a Leblanc :-)
Topically...I just talked with a friend of mine who works there, and he says not to worry. The word they're getting there is that everything will continue as normal, and may in fact improve after the transition.
All we can do is wait and see, I suppose...
(Well, wait and see...and get friendly with ProWinds, Muncy, and Weiner. ;-) )
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Author: kjs
Date: 2006-11-27 18:20
Bummer.... I ordered reeds here for years. Even bought a LeBlanc 'A' from them.
I, too, had an order filled quickly within the last month---I was a bit surprised as one of the products was backordered.
Thanks to those of you who listed other online options.
> Karen
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-11-27 20:03
bufclar,
You said, "I thought about calling Mr. Kurzweil but I'm not really that bent out of shape about it. I just wanted to share my experience with all of you. "
It's hardly fair to the retailer to complain in public on a board like this and not discuss it with the company to give them an opportunity to "make it up to you." So, I know you're over your bad experience, but you still need to report this behavior to the management. If this is typical for that store they need to know about the problem to correct it. I'm sure some of the current employees would like to keep their jobs when new management comes in--but it sounds like some of them shouldn't keep their jobs.
I have had very good experiences with my dealings with wwbw, even recently. But, I've had bad experiences in the past with merchandise not getting shipped out in time and instruments not being adjusted before they shipped, and other sloppiness. But, overall they have had good prices and good merchandise.
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Author: happyflower
Date: 2006-11-27 20:37
We were told nothing will change with the employees during the bankruptcy precedings (which is only 60 days). The new owner can do whatever they want including firing every employeee which they have done before in one of their takeovers.
If I need service, I go to another local music store in town, even I have to pay more, and I am a married to one of WWBW employees. So yes, they do need more and better sales people in retail.
Do I think I think you will obtain better service when Guitar Center takes over? No, have you visited on of theirs stores latey? Then have one of the highest turnover rate in the music industry. Most of the sales force at WWBW have been there many years.
I believe you should report the treatment you received while trying to buy a horn. They can make it up to you usually. I do believe if you were trying out pro horns, an appointment should have been made, since it was Sunday and they had less employees to actually drive ( a couple of miles away) to get the horns needed from the warehouses. But they did have a few to try, and that is more than you would get anywhere else.
And it is true that if they have several horns in stock that you want, well they can all be gone the next day due to their large mailorder buisness. The inventory is only good for a few hours at most.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-11-27 20:54
Brenda Siewert wrote:
> It's hardly fair to the retailer to complain in public on a
> board like this and not discuss it with the company to give
> them an opportunity to "make it up to you."
Make up for bad service exactly how? You can't withhold a tip, and I daresay they're not going to give you a free clarinet. All you normally get is an apology by management, who actually should be supervising the junior or new members of the company to ensure that this kind of thing just doesn't happen.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-11-27 21:06
If they aren't told about it (management), they won't know. But, if these employees are of such poor quality, I'm certain someone will eventually complain.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-11-30 14:11
Thanks GBK. It's good to see in actual print how this thing is going down. I hope it works out where we'll still have access to great stuff at great prices.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-11-30 20:45
(Disclaimer - WWBW owes me money on past invoices)
They may continue business but all debts of WWBW prior to 11/21 will be paid by the bankruptcy court at some later date (probably 6 - 9 months) when the scavengers and lawyers take their prime part and the bones are picked clean by priority creditors. It depends on which side of the divide you find yourself on. They are still ordering on a COD basis today.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2007-04-14 23:15
Bankruptcy court previosly made Steinway the lead bidder, but they backed out after due diligence indicated some conditions could not be met. Guitar Center is back as the lead bidder:
http://www.internetretailer.com/dailyNews.asp?id=21328
After three months, does anyone have better information than this?
Thanks,
Ralph
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-04-14 23:28
(Disclaimer - I am a creditor to DBI)
Woodwind Brasswind was bought by Musician's Friend in February 2007 - a subsidary of The Guitar Center. Musician's Friend is operating WWBW and the web site is active and products are being shipped and new stock ordered. Musician's Friend so far has been paying bills on time but some previous providers have chosen not to renew their affiliation with the new WWBW, some have. Debts incurred prior to December 2006 against DBI (Dennis Bamber Incorporated) are being settled by the bankruptcy court with a resolution date now put off until September 2007 and perhaps longer if further motions by attorneys for DBI are granted. Legal motions by creditors abound by previous providers to WWBW so a firm date for pay out of debts is uncertain.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
Post Edited (2007-04-14 23:46)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-04-15 12:44
IAAL
With great sympathy to Omar, this situation is not unusual in bankruptcy. From the point of view of banks and large suppliers, it would be suicidal to lend money or supply products to a business in the process of disintegration, without making sure you'll be first in line to collect when it does go under.
Small suppliers like Omar don't have enough leverage to get this treatment, or even find out the company's detailed financial condition. Even if they do find out, they have to balance the benefit of continued sales against the chance of not being paid.
Even Dennis Bamber deserves a little sympathy. He overextended himself, but he undoubtedly did his best to keep WW&BW going.
Unsecured creditors, like Omar, will probably be paid only a few pennies on the dollar.
The best we can do is wish Omar well and order lots of The Doctor's excellent products directly from him at <www.doctorsprod.com>.
Ken Shaw
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2007-04-15 16:17
Omar's email arrived two after a ship notification from WW&BW. Of course, those items we not things I could have bought directly from Omar. I ordered stuff directly from The Doctor last fall. Between two types of cork grease, re-designed swabs, the magnet dish for holding screws and a few other items, I managed to get over a hundred dollars. And I am running short of his key oil -- a much superior oil -- so it won't be long before I go through his website and place another order.
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2007-04-16 01:22
OK - thanks for the information.
Looking at the size of his new building when I was last there, it is not surprising he was overextended. So, can you provide any further insight as to what happened? Was it the building pr something else that caused the overextension?
Regards
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-04-16 01:45
Ralph Katz wrote:
> Was it the building
> pr something else that caused the overextension?
They lost a lawsuit by Zapf brothers (founders of music123, an organization that WW&BW acquired.). See The South Bend Tribune Article or Google for more details.
Details of the lawsuit, however, have not been released.
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Author: Chalumeau Joe
Date: 2007-04-16 02:45
I was on their web site this evening, and they're running some significant clearance sales. I'm tempted to purchase a few things, but based on all of the comments on this thread, don't know if it's a prudent thing to do.
How concerned should I be?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-04-16 02:47
Chalumeau Joe wrote:
> How concerned should I be?
They've been sold and the new owners are running things. Buyers shouldn't have any problems. It's creditors of the old WW & BW (pre-sale) that have problems.
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Author: gwmusic
Date: 2007-04-16 03:50
I have an order pending from Music123 for a double case; after reading this post I called the woodwind dept and asked about the bankruptsy and was told that the WW&BW/Music123 have been sold and that it will not affect any purchases made and he was excited about the increased buying power of another parent company.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-04-16 13:52
"asked about the bankruptsy and was told that the WW&BW/Music123 have been sold and that it will not affect any purchases made "
No affect to any purchaces? That's great! They can still continue to provide substandard service, shipping items to the wrong recipient and jamming up the customer's saturday afternoons whilst we wait for UPS to come pick up the mistake and ship it back.
Tradition, tradition, tradition...
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The Clarinet Pages
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