 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-04-11 16:13
Well, from numerous posts/replies that I've read, as well as articles, the general consensus is to line up however many clarinets you can/want, play through them, and pick the one with the most even resistance and best intonation.
Well, I was pretty ticked at the Buffet r13 prestige that was given to me to use by my band. Particularly because of the thumb F and thumb and forefinger E. Also, the C#/G#. The F and E and in excess of 20 cents flat (when trying to make everything else as close as possible) and the C#/G# extremely stuffy. The rest of the clarinet is workable, but not as good as I would have liked it (I'm picky).
The short-term solution was for me to hold the side Eb/Bb key down whenever playing the F and E to raise it about twenty cents.
The long-term solution was to use my own clarinet. Right now over here, the Ridenour Lyrique that I just bought (you can check that thread), back home, I have to compare the lyrique with my custom tuned Opus and see who the victor will be.
When I mentioned this to our technician (clarinet/sax player) he simply said, "Hmmm. I wonder if the little pad is too low throwing off those notes."
Which led me to my theory . . .
Basically, the above lining up clarinets and playing them to choose the best really won't do much for you if they're not all perfectly adjusted to begin with. If a pad height can possibly affect one or two notes to be grossly out of tune, you can't be sure that you're not tossing aside what could actually be a VERY good clarinet if it were properly set up. You could just be picking the best "adjusted" clarinet out of the bunch. So I guess, in theory, the BEST way would not be to play as many clarinets as you can get your hands on, but rather to play as many 'correctly adjusted' clarinets as you can get your hands on. Which certain shops may or may not be able to do. Even places/people who 'hand pick' clarinets, may have just ended up choosing the best adjusted clarinet (best sounding out of the bunch) but may have inadvertantly tossed aside what could have been a better clarinet due to poor adjustment . . .
Which leads me to believe that maybe, all this talk about these bad batch of R13s or bad batch of this or that may not be that bad of a batch as stated, but maybe the machines or keywork is incorrectly lined up or adjusted and were they properly adjusted would be much better or more 'uniform' (I remember hearing about just how different each clarinet could be) with each other.
I don't know . . . a long day winding down and I've just been doing some thinking over here . . .
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2007-04-11 19:29
I think it's nice to be able to work with the maker. That's why i like my Eatons, the maker is on the end of a phone if you have a problem. Nothing wrong with mass produced instruments but unless you can go to the factories in Paris and try instruments with the technicians you have to go with your instincts and should go with your clarinet instincts.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-04-12 00:55
I"m psuedo sided with Alexi. Though in the vintage market you never know what was done to a clarinet - increased the bore here and there, etc.
I've fixed up alot of clarinets after they were already fixed up. key/pad height, etc can affect intonation (IMHO the quality of pads makes a difference too) - basically, the further up a problem is the more it can affect going down (makes sense eh?)
You can make so-so clarinets into really nice sounding easy playing instruments if you really know what you are doing.
So there's truth in that what Alexi is pondering. But, also in the used market as I said you never know what was altered on a clarinet. There are also certain year ranges of certain clarinets that professionals prefer - so there's that other variable where the craftsmanship may have been at a height, or the wood may have been the best, or the design was the best until someone made a slight change .....
so, for example, do research on the most wanted year ranges for R13s, then play test those. So if you know the type of sound you want you can narrow your search a bit.
For example, I'll be searching for a particular ring and tone which I know I can really only get with a Buffet RC, but i'll be looking for a particular serial number range. Also R13s ppl prefer late 60s to early 70s. But to get to the point of wanting "a particular sound" you have to develop your tonal concepts over time. The R13 you love today may not be the tonal concepts you will be looking for 5 years from now.
of course, sometimes they all sound the same .....
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-04-12 01:01
I should also mention that going to regular music stores to play test may not be optimal. I asked a local music store to bring in (from another one of their stores) a new R13. It came, they checked it over and gave the OK for it. I play tested it. It was kinda nice .. intonation was slightly off here and there. For my light touch 1/3 of the instrument would not work. For heavy fingers it was "okay". keywork was nice and smooth, etc. But it definitely was not setup for someone like me to play. I thought the tone was lacking too.
That was a definitely "setup" issue clarinet for a brand new instrument. It's hard to make a sale to an experienced player. I certainly wouldn't want to be a less experienced player looking for that "R13" and end up buying that sample.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-04-12 01:19
Alexi -
François Kloc says that the Buffet factory sets the C#/G# key too low. By opening it up, you can cure the problem you mention.
Play a piano or mezzo piano low F and open the key . You should get a reasonably clear multiphonic two octaves higher. If you don't, the key needs to be opened wider.
Continue with low F#, G, G# and A, each of which will probably require a slight additional opening to get the multiphonic.
After he did this with my R-13, all notes using the key were considerably improved.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-04-12 16:32
Alexi,
You're basically correct. Your batch of trial instruments need to be well set-up. Reject first on intonation, then select for your favorite characteristic: responsiveness, sound, balanced scale, ...
Maybe having an expert (in some sense: player, teacher, technician) along with your could correct some basic mechanism set-up error and move a reject into the "contender" pile.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2007-04-13 01:06
I think ,if you're a good player or good tech,that you can tell if something is
just an adjust problem or is something intrinsic to the clarinet which cannot be easily fixed.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-04-13 13:07
But how can you tell if you're not a good tech? Like how can you tell if a fuzzy note is due to pad clearance (easy fix) or incorrect tone hole diameter?
I was just wondering this because I was thinking about services like the Brannens or Tom Ridenour or Backun or others who you can send your new clarinet to for a full adjustment and tuning, and how many people have said that their clarinet has come back VERY well improved from these people. It got me to thinking that maybe EVERY R13 or other clarinet can sound the same with a correct adjustment and maybe the inner bores and tonehole diameters aren't that far off if at all from clarinet to clarinet.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2007-04-13 13:32
You don't.
That's why you go to reputable dealer to try clarinets.
It's the dealers' responsibilty to make every clarinet they're showing as best as they can.and we,customers,simply try them as is without speculating how it'll sound if Brannen(for instance) regulated.
I wish Buffet(just an example) did much better job doing all the mechanics nearly perfect before going out of their premises,but there are millions excuses why it can't be done,which I consider most of them garbages.(There are very few legitimate cases).They say they have to raise the price if you expect better adjustment,but it is already expensive.
They raised price $400 last fall without any improvements.
When I buy a car,I don't take it to my mechanic to fix it before driving it.
You cannot afford to adjust every clarinet you're trying by Brannen.
I make/repair violins and many times ship to overseas.
My customers don't have to take it again to the local person to adjust.
And violins are much more fragile and sensitive instruments than clarinets.
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