 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kev182
Date: 2007-04-06 02:08
Do you guys know if the break in process for Greenline is the same for wooden clarinets?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-06 02:10
There is no breaking in period for Greenline or plastic clarinets as there is for wooden ones.
Knock yourself out and play as long as you like.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kev182
Date: 2007-04-06 02:23
Are you comparing a Greenline to a plastic clarinet =D lol.... but Is that for sure? Because the bore on a Greenline would not expand and contract the same way as a regular wood clarinet?
Is another reason to break in wood clarinets to slowly allow the bore to absorb the moisture from our playing.. or prevent crevasses from forming where water runs down the instrument?
just curious
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-06 02:37
Greenline is a composite material and will behave as a composite, just like plastic which is also a composite. Greenline and plastic does not behave in the same manner as wood.
Moisture does not form a crevass down the bore or form the alleged 'spit trail' a lot of people talk about. It will run down the bore unhindered provided the bore is sufficiently maintained, and moisture in the bore is in the form of condensation that will collect on the entire bore surface - only when the droplets get large enough does it begin to unstabilise and run down the bore or into toneholes.
Moisture (and humidity) will have very little effect on Greenline and plastics (but will affect wooden clarinets), but temperature will have a marked effect on composites - composites are less stable than wood dimentionally when subjected to hot or cold temperatures.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-04-06 02:42
kev182 wrote:
> Are you comparing a Greenline to a plastic clarinet =D lol....
A Greenline clarinet IS a plastic/resin clarinet built with the specs of an R13.
Buffet says that it is made with an unspecified percentage of grenadilla dust/powder and carbon fibers.
I would be very curious to know the approximate percentage of plastic/resin as opposed to grenadilla dust/carbon fibers.
Although there are MANY satisfied Greenline users, to me there is something lacking in the sound...GBK (who owns only pure wood R13's)
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Author: kev182
Date: 2007-04-06 02:47
So I should be extremely careful about temperature changes? what exactly happens to a composite material if it undergoes temp. change? What do you mean by stability?
If the bore size changes on a greenline as a result of temp. change, will it return to its original state?
GBK: On the Buffet website its states GL consists of 95% wood and 5% carbon/resin... I find it awkward to call that plastic O_o
http://www.buffet-crampon.com/en/instruments.php?mode=productDetails&pid=108
Post Edited (2007-04-06 02:52)
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-04-06 02:54
Chris P,
Doesn't the spit trail form from oiling the bore? I've noticed I have a little straight line of spit that comes straight down to the bell. I remember reading on her about how you can alter the path of your spit through oiling your bore.
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2007-04-06 04:52
Even though Buffet says 95% wood dust and 5% resin,it seems wood percentage is way too high.
Can 5% resin hold 95% wood dust together?
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Author: kilo
Date: 2007-04-06 09:18
"So I should be extremely careful about temperature changes? what exactly happens to a composite material if it undergoes temp. change?"
I live in coastal Maine, I practice in an unheated room, and my clarinet and I sometimes travel as much as an hour to rehearsal destinations. In frigid winter temperatures, sure, my Green Line plays flat. And there will be considerable condensation (I don't think it's all "spit"). As the instrument warms it will expand, only to contract again when I put it away. But this would happen to a wooden clarinet as well. The difference is that the composite material can take this sort of treatment through many, many cycles without suffering the way wood does.
If I leave it on the peg with just a quick pull-through of a silk swab, the moisture in the tenon spaces won't swell the joints. I don't have to use bore oil or be super attentive to residual moisture (although I don't begrudge my Series 10 lavish care). In short the Green Line has many of the benefits of the sort of plastic clarinet one might choose to play in a football marching band in terms of durability, and all the advantages one gets from the keywork, ergonomics, and "presence" of a professional wooden clarinet. As far as I'm concerned, and according to many, many professional clarinetists (which I'm not) the acoustic properties are identical or even superior to traditional wooden clarinets. Obviously there are those who disagree; and, given the right conditions, I actually prefer my old Selmer. But the Green Line enables me to practice and play in conditions which would stress my beloved old wooden instrument.
PS: I believe there are high end plastic and hard rubber clarinets which might be of equal utility and if I lived closer to civilization and were able to try them out I might have purchsed one -- I was, admittedly, drawn by the allure of owning an R13.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-06 11:34
Even though it may contain 95% wood dust doesn't mean it will behave like wood.
Wood has natural tensile strength, composites do not. As Greenline is made from wood powder, the natural tensile strength is no longer present as the structure is now uniform. If you were to get an identical billet of grenadilla, plastic and Greenline and subject them to stress, you'll probably find the grenadilla holds out the longest.
With temperature changes, plastics and composites will shrink and expand more than wood, and i the case of plastic instruments a certain amount of end play has to be present between the keys and pillars - more so on long keys to prevent them binding up when cold. That's why on plastic bass and contra-alto/bass clarinets you will see a lot of what seems like very loose keywork - it's there for a good reason.
Wood will expand and contract widthways under changes in humidity - plastics and composites will move in all directions.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: hans
Date: 2007-04-06 13:41
kev182,
Re: "So I should be extremely careful about temperature changes? what exactly happens to a composite material if it undergoes temp. change?"
......below is a copy and paste from the Buffet Crampon web site describing Greenline:
"Body of 95% granulated Grenadilla wood and 5% polycarbonate fibre and epoxy resin. Clarinet can withstand extreme temperature changes and will not crack. "
"Can withstand extreme temperature changes" means that you do not need to be careful wrt temperature at all. Just enjoy playing it (and not having to oil the bore or worry about cracking).
Hans
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-04-06 14:02
Chris P wrote:
> Even though it may contain 95% wood dust doesn't mean it will
> behave like wood.
>
> Wood has natural tensile strength, composites do not.
Wood has natural - and very directional - tensile strength. They crack where the strength is weakest for a variety of reasons.
Composites are not natural - therefore speaking of their "natural" tensile strength is a bit misleading.
The reason carbon fibers et al. are added to composites is to create tensile strength. Resin by itself is not a particularly strong substance but in combination with directional, non-directional, or a combination of fiber types (depending on the characteristics you want) you can create a material with the properties you want. A composite can be substantially stronger in every axis than wood - if that's what you're looking for. I don't know how Buffet has laid out their carbon fibers, so I can't say what their inherent strengths are. But that "wood dust" is more filler than anything. The fibers are the key to their strength.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2007-04-06 14:24
Kevin,
I have owned a Greenline since 1995. It has spent time in amny different climates, from sunny eastern france, to tornado kansas, to freezing Quebec, to humid Boston.
I have my clarinet yearly checked by respected technicians and none noticed anything weird with the bore.
-S
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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