 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2007-04-04 13:45
Hi, all.. I have a clarinet question and a violin question about this one. One of the winners of our Young Artist Competition is playing Tzigane, and she is great! I am struck by the contrast between her playing and the soloist on our listening CD, though. It may be a partly a function of the recording, but on the CD the bowing is pretty aggressive, sometimes pretty edgy. Our young player takes more of a playful approach. I am curious what is considered pleasing or idiomatic in traditional music of this sort.
Approach can make a piece sound so different. In the clarinet world I have heard some pretty stiff renditions of the Weber Concertino, whereas I find a lot of room for playfulness in that piece.
Also, RE: Tzigane, any tips on accelerating that B major arpeggio at the end of the clarinet solo would be gladly accepted. ![[whoa]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie10.gif)
Regards to all!
Barb
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-04-04 17:34
My guess would be that a young player would have a hard time "getting into" gypsy music which I think of as being frenzied rather than playful.
Bob Draznik
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2007-04-04 17:53
Quote:
I am struck by the contrast between her playing and the soloist on our listening CD, though. It may be a partly a function of the recording, but on the CD the bowing is pretty aggressive, sometimes pretty edgy. Our young player takes more of a playful approach. I am curious what is considered pleasing or idiomatic in traditional music of this sort.
Many times, performance practice differs from the composers intent on the page - as I recently discovered while helping a Cellist friend on Dvorak Cello Concerto. Most "famous" cellist play the second theme of the 1st Mvt. at around 76 when Dvorak explicitly marks 100 as tempo. Until I researched the original score, I had no idea that this was Dvoraks intent, since almost every cellist I have heard is copying Rostropovich or Yo-yo Ma recordings. Not to mention conductors slowing down the second theme during the orchestra exposition's famous "horn solo".
As for Tzigane, I'd suggest further research into what Ravel's original score says regarding style and tempi. IMO, there is a very playful aspect - almost tongue in cheek, as we hear later on, I believe the song is a variation of "Turkey in the straw". It's a frechman's rhapsody on gypsy - like themes.
For an additional education, research Balanchine's choreography to Tzigane, set on Suzanne Farrell. The way he set the work, giving her the lone 5 minute solo with violin, as a naughty gyspsy girl in the middle of the night. She was the most elegant and glorious technician of his muses - less Tanaquil LeClerq, and at the end he has her flapping her arms in a chicken dance. So, even Balanchine saw the fun in Ravel's music.
Quote:
Also, RE: Tzigane, any tips on accelerating that B major arpeggio at the end of the clarinet solo would be gladly accepted.
To clarify, are you asking for interpretation or a technical question?
Post Edited (2007-04-04 18:08)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2007-04-04 19:22
"Real" "Gypsy" music can be anything the "Gypsy" wants it to be. There are styles and more or less appropriate times to play in certain styles or to play certain tunes, but it's all "correct." Historically these musicians played whatever their audience wanted, and fused their "insider" traditions with the ones from their audiences. It's a really complex subject, too, and I've over-simplified here!
I use quotes because I prefer to use the term Romany instead of Gypsy. I play Eastern European folk music, including Rom tunes.
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2007-04-04 20:43
I'm glad you chimed in, Katrina, because I remembered you play Eastern European music. I tend to agree with Griffinity 's point "IMO, there is a very playful aspect - almost tongue in cheek... It's a frechman's rhapsody on gypsy - like themes."
Brad, I would love to do the thing on the A clarinet except that Ravel calls for the Bb and actually switches to A later. That makes it hard for me to justify using the A. I think the first part of the solo sounds better on Bb timbre-wise.
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Author: Brad Behn
Date: 2007-04-04 21:16
I find the solo to be much easier on A. If you can't make the change back to Bb clarinet at rehearsal 8 in time to play the B's, perhaps you could ask the 2nd clarinetist to cover them for you. He/she wouldn't miss anything anyway because the 2nd clarinetist doesn't have any music to play until just before rehearsal 11.
Brad Behn
http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2007-04-04 22:11
Quote:
Brad, I would love to do the thing on the A clarinet except that Ravel calls for the Bb and actually switches to A later. That makes it hard for me to justify using the A. I think the first part of the solo sounds better on Bb timbre-wise.
I will have to consult my score before I can give a thoughtful recommendation on technique, but I would like to comment on the above statement.
Take Brahms 3, 1st mvt. as a similar example. First 11 measures are written for Bb then switch to A at measure 14. It's a difficult switch, so many play the opening on A clarinet and it usually sounds better, as the C# to E on the A clarinet is not as jarring as the timber change of C natural to Eb as played on Bb clarinet. Of course, at the highest level of player competence it would almost be indistinguishable to the untrained or even trained ear which clarinet was being used.
It sounds as if the trade off in your case is easier technique on the A versus preferred timbre on the Bb. However, timbre to our own ears as players may differ from what a listener hears - as we can misconstrue resistance in the A clarinet as sounding much darker when in fact there is little audible difference. But perhaps your Bb is a much "Brighter" sounding horn than your A, so such a difference does exist.
I'd suggest playing the passage for another clarinetist on the Bb and A, and weight the pros and cons. Could you make your A sound brighter somehow to match the timbre you're listening for - perhaps focusing on creating an E vowel? Even record yourself to judge with your own ears.
IMO, if you cannot make the music "sing" due to technical issues on the Bb - it would be more of an injustice to Ravel's music than not getting the exact timbre.
Post Edited (2007-04-04 22:16)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-04-05 20:57
Sorry if I gave anyone the impression I did not appreciate Romany music and/or gave the impression I was not aware of its various aspects. Also, I must admit I was not aware it was a Ravel piece. (Clears throat and attempts to exit quitely.)
Bob Draznik
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2007-04-05 21:53
No Bob...I am a stickler for these things (like calling them Romany), and can almost be too picky at times. And of course a BBoard is someplace it can be really hard to communicate tone!
As far as the Ravel piece, I don't know it actually! I just wanted to comment that Rom stuff can be stylistically anything, since that seemed to be part of the original question.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2007-04-05 22:15
I did this with Lorin Mazael a few years back. You can do it on the A but the 'brightness' of the Bb is better imo. Anyway to get round the 6s play them as 5s and miss out the 2nd D#. This helps the accel but remember to play the B major arpeggio as 6s though. Lorin came to me before the first play through and said that's how he wanted it, i've played it like that ever since and nobody has said anything.
Peter Cigleris
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