 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: cpark
Date: 2007-03-28 02:14
I've recently started making my own reeds from cane...have made about 50 so far.
The hardest part of the blank making process for me is after the planing and shaping....sanding the reed flat is difficult and very time consuming. At first I was actually sanding it out of being flat because I was using too much pressure.
So, I've found using a light touch to be the most helpful so far...but it is still difficult to get a PERFECTLY flat reed...it can take me 10 minutes or more per reed.
Is there a tool I can buy to speed up the process? any tips?
Thanks
Chris
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Author: cpark
Date: 2007-03-28 02:58
really? What's a sanding wheel?
I appreciate your tips rod rubber and I'm glad to hear there is a tool that can help me.
Best,
Chris
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Author: Escsrc
Date: 2007-03-28 06:19
Bastard file laid over a piece of glass and taped down to it. Slow, but it's yet to fail on me. (You need to blow out the dust on the file between each reed to insure its going to work the same each time)
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Author: cpark
Date: 2007-03-28 10:46
Thanks for the bastard file idea...I have one...I'll try it again.
Ideally though I'm looking for a faster solution. I'm intrigued by the sanding wheel suggestion. I google it...but I'm not exactly sure what I need to apply it to reeds.
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Author: doublej
Date: 2007-03-28 11:49
Try going to www.speedreed.com. Go to tools and then planer base. I baught my profiler from there and it is very good quality take a look at the base. I was going to buy that when i was in college but never got around to it.
jeff
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-03-28 16:08
Cleaning reed dust out of a file is difficult without a file cleaning brush. It's a flat piece of wood with short metal pins sticking out, each of them bent at about a 30 degree angle. It costs a couple of bucks at a hardware store.
At least for the initial shaping of the blank, Kalmen Opperman taught me to stand the curved piece (split out from the tube) on its end, put a knife on the top end and tap it down, splitting off the waste material and leaving the outside material at the appropriate thickness. This is not easy, and I think the DiLutis Planer http://www.frontiernet.net/~reedmach/blankmaking.htm would be worth the price, even at $190. You'll of course need the Profiler for shaping the sides of the blank ($70), and save your pennies for the vamp cutter ($550) http://www.frontiernet.net/~reedmach/reedcopyingtools.htm.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Brad Behn
Date: 2007-03-28 16:12
Getting a reed blank flat is very different than working on already made reeds. Basically the bottom line in making a perfectly flat reed is twofold. The sandpaper must be totally flat and your sanding technique must be honed to perfection.
Here are some thoughts.
A bastard file is not abrasive enough to flatten a raw reed blank (unless you are a very patient person because it will take too long). I prefer working with sandpaper of two different grits to get the job done. Bastard files also can be problematic. They vary a great deal in quality and even the best US maker has quality control issues. It is advised to sight down the file to see if it is indeed flat before buying.
I prefer to work with 220 grit sandpaper to start. Then I finish with 320 grit paper that has been well broken in (at this point it probably leaves the finish of 600 grit paper). I use a special non-loading paper by Norton that I purchased in 1986 but they no longer make it. Any style paper will do, but different styles and manufacture’s papers vary in true abrasiveness so it is helpful to try different papers and determine which style and grit works best for you.
I don’t like to use super high grit papers because they tend to load up the pores of my reed blank with dust and sand particles that only shorten the reed’s lifespan. I have not found benefit in a super high gloss, mirror like flat finish on my reeds.
When using the paper, make sure it is on a flat surface (glass is what I use) and make sure the paper is lying flat on the glass. This is crucial because many manufacture’s papers tend to curl up on the sides. Additionally on humid days the paper can soak in some of the atmosphere’s moisture and make it puff in a way that it doesn’t lay flat on the glass unless you force it. I used to force my paper by taping it down on all four sides but I have abandoned this technique because on humid days, the puffiness is an issue. So instead I tape the paper down on one side and hold the paper taut on the other side with my left hand. I use my right hand to sand the blank flat. By only taping one side of the paper down, it allows me to force the paper flat, no matter what the attitude of the paper is, due to humidity or anything else…such as yesterday’s spilt coffee stain! (Indeed the sanding motion can rock the table enough to spill your drink so keep the beer on another surface. But on the other hand, it is a good test to see if your technique is honed. By sanding in a way so as to keep the table from rocking, your drink won’t spill and this may be an indicator of a good sanding technique…Interesting.
Indeed sanding technique is VERY important. For the main purpose of flattening a blank, I use two different motions. My primary motion is in an oval shape. This keeps even pressure on the reed all the time. I will flip the reed around and continue in the oval motion just to be sure I am not creating pressure on only one side of the blank. It is very important that your paper is flat and that your sanding motion creates totally even pressure on the blank. My finish stroke is back-and-forth. I only do this motion for three or four strokes to blend the sandpaper’s abrasiveness with the Xylems of the blank. I treat this as a finish pattern. Hint: don’t try to master too many different techniques or stroke patterns. I have found it best to keep it simple. Master one or two motions and repeat them with different grits rather than pressing harder or softer, or doing stroke patterns of figure eights and then ovals and then back-and-forths. It just gets messy that way.
Frequently checking your progress by placing the reed on a flat piece of glass and rocking it to and fro to see if it is uneven, is a very helpful test to see if you are on track.
Also curing the blank by wetting it and sanding it after it has dried numerous times to coax the cane through its adolescent phase of volatile rambunctious warpage. Can be a helpful method to insure the reed will remain flat as it continues its life span as a player.
Good luck.
Brad Behn
http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
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Author: cpark
Date: 2007-03-28 16:17
to clarify, I have a planer(in addition to a shaper, dual etc).
I'm talking about the step after that to get it PERFECTLY flat. The warpage I'm eliminating is in the tenths or hundreds of a millimeter at this point.
The problem is time when doing a huge batch of reeds and also it's extremely hard to get them as flat as a V12 by hand...no matter what you do. If you have made your own reeds and compared them to V12s you'll know what I mean.
I'm still investigating the sanding wheel. I think I need a dremel?
Rod Rubber, could you post your set up for that when you get the chance. I'm assuming I'd need something to brace the whole setup in place as well.
Chris
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Author: cpark
Date: 2007-03-28 20:02
Thanks Brad for the extremely helpful post, that's not really been covered in depth here on the bboard before. I've encountered all the problems you mentioned and I will take your advice to heart.
You must have posted as I was writing my last post....
thanks again.
Joe
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2007-03-28 20:50
Can you use block plane(9 1/2) to make the reed's bottom flat?
If you know how to use a block plane,I assume that's fastest way,
but learning how to use is another story.
It would take years to master this technic even with someone's helping you.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-03-28 21:23
Koo Young Chung -
A block plane is not nearly precise enough without the sort of guide that the DiLutis machines provide. The tolerance for flatness on the bottom of the reed is a thousandth of an inch or less.
Ken Shaw
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Author: doublej
Date: 2007-03-29 02:45
Brad behn said: "I use a special non-loading paper by Norton that I purchased in 1986 but they no longer make it."
Brad I found this sand paper at the local woodcraft store. It is also made by norton and is a great sandpaper that does not clog as much. The only concern i have is that I prefer to use open coat sand paper as aposed to aluminum oxide. I found that the aluminum oxide will leave a residue where as the open coat does not.
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=5417
Also, at woodcraft they sell this granite plate that is milled to a greater tolerance than glass. I use one for other things but I purchased it with the intention of using it for reeds also. If I remember correctly the plate is accurate to 5/10,000 I believe.
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4864
A general tip that I have about sanding is that I like to use a limp wrist therefore only letting the weight of my hand push the reed down on the abrasive. You should find this to be enough preessure to keep the reed flat and to remove any irregularities and not accentuate them. If you are not removing enough material simply go with a more course abrasive and work your way back up through the abrasive.
Chris -
I am not sure what application you were think of using the dremel on. I can not think of any attachment that would help with flattening the blank/reed. Please post what you were thinking I am very curious.
jeff
By the way I have no affiliation with woodcraft I simply like to give them all my money!
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Author: cpark
Date: 2007-03-29 03:00
Jeff,
I'm not really sure what I had mind with the Dremel...I was just responding to Rod Rubber's suggestion to use a sanding wheel.
I'm not sure exactly how you would use it to sand the reeds flat...but after doing some googling I would think you would need a dremel to go along with the wheel.
Basically I'm looking for a faster way to flatten reeds...
Thanks for the suggestions though.
Does the open grain last as long as the aluminum oxide paper?
Thanks,
Chris
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Author: Brad Behn
Date: 2007-03-29 19:41
DoubleJ, Thanks for your post: “The only concern i have is that I prefer to use open coat sand paper as aposed to aluminum oxide. I found that the aluminum oxide will leave a residue where as the open coat does not.”
My paper doesn’t leave any residue, it doesn’t clog and it is isn't cloth backed. It is A-weight paper. I don’t like cloth backed papers for sanding either reeds or mouthpieces because it is too thick and soft. Cloth or thicker paper tends to reduce the nature of the hard backed flat glass or granite surface and makes it impossible for me to get a really flat surface on my reeds or mouthpieces.
Brad Behn
http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-03-29 19:59
Brad -
Is your non-loading paper the stuff with a thin plastic backing? I tried a couple of sheets several years ago and found that it was more aggressive than I liked and tended to lift up from the glass underneath.
Ken Shaw
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Author: doublej
Date: 2007-03-31 14:39
Hi Brad -
The paper I baught must not have been the same as what was on the internet because it has a paper back. Sorry about that I did not reed the description I assumed it was the same and of course you all know what happens when you assume.
jeff
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2007-04-01 05:05
May I suggest using a sheet of 1/4" plate glass and wetordry sandpaper of different grits. You can go to your local glass place and he will cut and edge you a piece. I have two. One is about 6" by 12" and the other, for flattening the bottom of bought reeds with 600 wetordry, is about 3" by 8". My local glass man didn't even charge me for them. (I even use a small piece of 600 wetordry to reshape bought reeds by wrapping a small piece around my finger - much netter than rush.)
Plate glass is absolutely flat. When you wet the 180, 220, or 400 grit wetordry sandpaper and lay it down on your plate glass it will cling and lie flat without curling up. Wet sand papers cut very, very fast and do not clog. The moisture is good for the reed-in-progress because any swelling or warping from the moisture it picks up will be leveled out by the wet sanding, and after all, that's the condition in which the reed will be used, so you will end up with a truer reed.
B.
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Author: ABerry
Date: 2007-04-01 21:31
Greetings,
Years ago in northern Vermont, I attended a master class given by Joe Allard. During which my reed began acting up, he opened his briefcase and pulled out…the “bastard” file, a couple of swipes later my reed was good as new. Granted, this is an example of revitalizing a reed, but the process would be the same for sanding the blank perfectly flat.
Allan
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