 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-03-27 05:52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o7kR3bVcT4&NR
wowzers.....
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: kilo
Date: 2007-03-27 09:38
Sixty times, same player, same reed -- wow, man, that's science! This is so convincing I'm going to stick a stone on my Series 10.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-03-27 10:56
That's really interesting about the stones. Does anyone know if they are just stuck ON the horn or are they actually go through the metal to the bore??
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2007-03-27 13:00
Some great playing as well.
I think I'll use some granite on my Mark VI tenor (so I can rock more) and maybe some obsidian on my VI alto for a darker sound.
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Author: Erik713
Date: 2007-03-27 14:31
I played a couple tenors in NYC a few months ago. I was REALLY impressed with how they looked. The sound was alright, but not what I was looking for -- too bright. However, I was very much NOT impressed with the intonation of the tenors I played. When I try new instruments, I always take a tuner in and test every note. Out of the 6 or 7 instruments I played that day, the Cannonballs were all the worst on intonation, no contest.
They sure do look pretty though!
~~~~~~~
~Woodwind doubler - sop./alto/tenor saxes, clarinet, oboe, English horn, flute/picc.
~Woodwind Teacher
Post Edited (2007-03-28 02:10)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-27 16:50
So will a diamond stuck on produce a tone that will cut glass, or is it easier just to use a Dukoff mouthpiece with a plastic reed?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2007-03-28 00:59
Erik,
What did I write? Something got clipped from your post.
You have hit on a really significant issue when you mention the intonation. As a doubler, I could be playing a wind ensemble concert one day, a show the next day, and a jazz gig the next. While intonation on all these different jobs could be viewed as differing by some, I can't stand to be not even a few cents off.
With that in mind, my backups are becoming the newer Yamaha saxes although I have "benched" my Mark VI alto and now use a perfectly voiced and in-tune Super 80 (not a II or III). Funny, a Mark VI as the backup. I've even considered selling it but that would be like sending an old friend out to pasture (I've been playing it for 53 years).
HRL
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Author: Erik713
Date: 2007-03-28 02:15
hehe...I accidentally left that in there. It's gone now.
I use a SA 80 II alto and tenor. The intonation is rock solid, and the sound is really quite flexible for classical horns. You can't afford to be off tuning-wise in classical and pit gigs. You'll never get called again!
That, and I just hate being out of tune a lot.
I'm with ya, Hank!
~~~~~~~
~Woodwind doubler - sop./alto/tenor saxes, clarinet, oboe, English horn, flute/picc.
~Woodwind Teacher
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-28 13:34
"I use a SA 80 II alto and tenor. The intonation is rock solid, and the sound is really quite flexible for classical horns."
SA80II saxes are 'classical horns'? I thought like most saxes they're general purpose saxes, and not style specific.
Unlike the Buffet (S1 or S3) Prestige which are 'polite', or the King Super 20 which are right belters.
Some people say the Yamaha 875EX is a 'classical' sax and the 82Z is the Jazz/rock one - I play an 875EX alto and an 875II tenor, and they will work in any situation nad make any sound you want from them - Jazz or Classical. Though intonation-wise I prefer the Yamahas over the SA80II - I find the Yamahas are much easier to get on with.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Erik713
Date: 2007-03-28 15:35
Hey, Chris.
I guess by "classical horns" I meant that they have a darker tone than many other brands I've played (though, the Yamaha Custom Z (82) isn't far off). They tend to physically be much heavier. This much I know. I could be wrong, but I think the walls are a bit thicker than some other horns.
I've always picked Selmers, especially the series II horns for my classical playing. The series III horns are too bright for my taste. I know people that have gotten similar results with other brands.
As for intonation, I haven't had many issues with Yamahas that I've played. I do like the fact that they are quite a bit lighter. However, I just love the Selmer sound.
Erik
~~~~~~~
~Woodwind doubler - sop./alto/tenor saxes, clarinet, oboe, English horn, flute/picc.
~Woodwind Teacher
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-28 17:39
I do like the Selmer's general tone quality, though I've struggled with the intonation on them - and also with the thought that considering the cost they could be built and finished much better.
The old SBA saxes are becoming very popular with a lot of players I know of, and seem to be taking over from the MkVI as the most sought after Selmer. I'd go for an SBA, but there's always the thing if you have a good one, you want to protect it at all costs as finding another will be hard work.
But with all Selmer saxes, there's good and bad from any era.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-03-28 17:51
I love the SBA tenors .. but price-wise I'd rather knock off several years of payments from my morgage.
I play both a late VII alto and an early VII tenor, both excellent intonation. My CB BBGS tenor I had a couple years back was great intonation also. But when rocks get wet they get super slippery. I should have just replaced the rocks with pearls but the tone just wasn't complex enough for me.
The yamahas though are excellent all-around horns. I'd love to have a 875 as backup alto or tenor. With the right mpcs, they can do classical as well as jazz IMHO
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Author: LesterV
Date: 2007-03-28 18:18
Stone keys would be difficult but it is possible to make a barrel out of solid jade.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2007-03-28 20:13
As far as the Cannonball's sound being brighter, did anyone notice that the only licks and tunes being played throughout the news item were all "smooth jazz" oriented? I think that style (which I detest...) requires a bright horn to be appropriate...
Katrina
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Author: Erik713
Date: 2007-03-29 00:30
Katrina, as Steve said, with the right mpc they can do both. I'm sure with a Caravan and a Rovner dark, you could get a pretty dark sound out of the Cannonballs. I get a pretty shrill sound out of the Selmers with the right mouthpiece, too.
A lot of the sound has to do with the mpc for sure!
~~~~~~~
~Woodwind doubler - sop./alto/tenor saxes, clarinet, oboe, English horn, flute/picc.
~Woodwind Teacher
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2007-04-03 05:16
the stone on the neck is 'applied'...does not go through to the bore. I have talked with a musical instrument theorist at Stanford and he says they claim the stone introduces a 'node' in the neck and changes the necks resonant frequencies.
But they also claim that the touches being stone rather than MOP changes the tone (listen to the text in the youtube.
I did a lot of business for a music store that closed recently doing setup on Cannonballs. They were highly variable and sloppily setup so there were good one and bad ones (kinda like modern Selmers IMO). But once setup, they were consistently good players with reasonable intonation. Since the resale has been so bad on them, I still occasionally pick up a cheap one, set it up and then resell after playing for a while. I have a Mad Meg at the moment. The keywork is not particularly refined, but quite functional, and the sound is unique...reminiscent of older Conns or newer Keilwerths, but with more edge. Most of my recent playing of these has been on tenors with Link STM mpcs. I put a Dukoff on my MM and it went out of tune and screechy.
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