 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: kev182
Date: 2007-03-24 09:02
Hey guys,
I'm very frustrated and confused/worried about buying a new clarinet. My teacher who is a HARDCORE Buffet fan wants me to get an R13. Don't get me wrong, the R13 has some very nice qualities but some things about it drive me crazy.
The most annoying thing is a high pitched buzz.. or ring throughout middle line B and up.... it drives me crazy. This is consistent with all the R13s I have tried and once I mentioned it to my colleges they began to notice it as well. Do any of you notice this?
Middle line B sounds so stuffy and thin on an R13. The sound of an R13 just isn't close to as pure as an RC.
generally I find the R13 stuffy, requiring a softer reed than my RC....but I have heard countless players with crystal clear sounds so... thats just me that needs to adjust to te instrument.
do any of you notice this as well?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-03-24 09:16
Will your teacher forsake you for not getting an R13? If not, then get something you'll be happy playing.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Morrigan
Date: 2007-03-24 10:32
I had a ring in my new Buffet recently. We tried everything we could to locate the buzz in the keywork. I took it to my teacher who informed me that the ring is THE ring that many speak of in a good sound. It's an upper harmonic in the sound and helps with projection and generally part of what makes up a nice tone. If an instrument is lacking this ring, perhaps it won't project as well. Just a thought.
[ Snipped - GBK ]
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-24 13:10
Kevin,
Find the clarinet that works best for you, and not one you're told to play only beacuse your teacher plays one.
What may suit some people may not suit others. My teacher was a Buffet RC player, though I prefer Leblanc and Selmer clarinets and he didn't mind that.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-03-24 13:45
kev182 wrote:
> My teacher who is a HARDCORE Buffet fan wants me to
> get an R13.
Bit of information that doesn't belong ... you already have an RC so you're satisfying your hardcore Buffet fan already, who is probably reading this BBoard right now ... and you already like your RC, right?
Tell your teacher you'll get a new clarinet if Interlochen lowers the tuition 3 grand.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2007-03-24 15:54
I remember the Interlochen National Music Camp...tuition free.
What kind of place is this present day Interlochen with tuition of thousands and thousands of dollars?
Clarinet Redux
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-03-24 16:35
Old Geezer wrote:
>
> I remember the Interlochen National Music Camp...tuition free.
We are talking about the Interlochen Arts Academy - a boarding high school, with annual fees in excess of 31K/yr. When my son attended for his last 3 years of high school the fees were about 25K/yr. I got a "raise" when he attended Cleveland Inst. of Music - it cost me about half that to send him to a conservatory ...
The summer camp is no longer free (and is no longer the National Music Camp). Indeed, I never knew the summer camp was ever free.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-03-24 22:32
I don't think the National Music Camp was ever free. It certainly wasn't when I went there in 1958.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: chinaboy61
Date: 2007-03-25 00:09
Well my R-13 had a VERY fuzzy tone to it.. The problem was that all the pads were too low....So I returned it and got a vintage! BEST MOVE I EVER MADE!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kev182
Date: 2007-03-25 07:40
I love my RC, and many players have said it is fantastic. However it plays very sharp and has a massive crack in the upper joint, courtesy of Michigan weather.
The ring I speak of is definitely not the same ring your talking about. It is not desirable... unless I'm seriously mistaken.
I pretty much have to buy an R13.... you would understand if you knew my teacher, I was just wondering if others notice the same problems.
About Interlochen today, its doing well. We just won the national medal of the arts. You can check out more online if your interested.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-25 11:32
There's no such thing as 'have to buy' - choose what YOU like, not what your teacher wants you to like.
Why settle with something you're not going to be happy with?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-25 11:35
"I was just wondering if others notice the same problems."
I never found any of the problems you described with R13s I tried, including my own which I played for many years. This comapring with other Buffet models and also other brands, both side by side and over the years.
"I pretty much have to buy an R13.... you would understand if you knew my teacher"
I'm interested to know why he thinks you should get a R13. Is it because he thinks the R13 is just the best clarinet (if so, why?) or does he think the R13 will be best specifically for you? Are his reasons specific or cultural or .....?
"However it plays very sharp and has a massive crack in the upper joint, courtesy of Michigan weather."
Maybe you should consider a Greenline.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-03-25 15:03
Heck, have the crack repaired. My teacher has more cracks in his Buffets than he has Buffets, and no one could tell that my listening.
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pewd
Date: 2007-03-25 16:44
>massive crack in the upper joint
well, duh, no wonder its out of tune
what bob said. get it fixed. thats about $3k cheaper than a new r13
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kev182
Date: 2007-03-25 17:54
"Maybe you should consider a Greenline."
I have already decided thats exactly what I'm getting =D
It is not out of tune because of the crack...the crack is very recent. I just sent it in for repair last week. Repairing it will not significantly change its intonation problems also. And please do not recommend getting a longer barrel problem, thats is not a solution.
About the R13, my teacher thinks it is the best clarinet you can buy, so it's not just a clarinet he would recommend for my needs. Although he says Tosca's can be great if you can find a good one, which are very rare. I guess being a Buffet rep would influence that.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-03-25 19:20
Kevin,
I used to use the same setup as you through graduate school, except I had an R13 instead of RC and used a bit stronger reed. I bought a new Prestige recently, after trying out 9 R13s in the same store. If you feel you have to get an R13, I'm sure you can find a good one by trying very many. Don't feel pressure to buy if you're not completely satisfied. And, make sure you bring along a good teacher or advanced player who will know what to listen for when you're trying out horns. I was sure glad I brought a friend when I went shopping. A couple of the R13s I kind of liked, but loved the Prestige immediately. I didn't notice a particular buzz or mosquito quality, but a generally undesirable tone in most of the R13s I tried. So, just try as many as you can before purchasing.
A friend of mine has a great R13 that is a couple of years old, and it has many cracks which he has simply patched up with superglue. The tuning on it is quite good, so the cracks are probably not affecting that too much for you. He also graduated from Interlochen, incidentally.
You are playing an American style mouthpiece with a European style clarinet, at least the RC is marketed more in Europe than here. Maybe that is affecting the intonation adversely. Is your mouthpiece a "13 Series" mouthpiece? The 13 series is supposed to lower the pitch compared to the non-13 Series mouthpieces, so you might try that.
I hope some of this was helpful.
-Claritoot26
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: msloss
Date: 2007-03-26 00:21
The instrument is one element in the toolset needed to become a great clarinetist. Your teacher is giving you counsel based on years of training, experience and success about what to put in that toolset. Sure, go ahead, reject the instrument recommendation. Then maybe ignore the mouthpiece suggestions. Reeds? P'shaw. Embouchere? Naaah. Phrasing and interpretation? Go it yourself. Wait, why are you studying with the teacher?
OK, I'm being extreme with the illustration, but I hope you follow the point. I'm not sure I agree with the sentiment of rejecting what the teacher recommends out of hand. In most (I won't say all) cases, you select the teacher based on his or her musicianship and artistry, which I would consider to include sound and expression. If you respect your teacher, and he or she gets the beauty of sound and nuance of expression you hope to achieve, why not accept the guidance on the instrument model? If you were studying with a member of the Met orchestra, there would probably be a Selmer bias. With Morales, Selmer or more recently Leblanc/Backun. With the NY Phil section, Buffet. It is just a tool. Let your teacher help you select the right one.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-03-26 00:34
msloss wrote:
>
As the one who during my son's middle school, high school, and college clarinet education bore the financial impact of both the education and tools - there are some teachers who in essence "demand" certain tools. Those teachers should be upfront with the students before they start.
In this case perhaps a new clarinet is warranted, but the teacher should have - and may in fact have advised, I don't know - that there were serious difficulties ahead with the student's current tool and advised the parents accordingly.
Once the student is buying all their own instruments, the student will be able to make the appropriate tradeoffs and sacrifices.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kev182
Date: 2007-03-26 07:00
msloss, I 110% agree with you which is why I am going to be getting an R13. I was just wondering if these things I have notcied with the R13 have been isolated within my own trials.
I guess I'll take the advice of trying many and seeing what happens. =D
although..... I'm limited to pick from six. Do you think that is a wide enough selection?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-03-26 13:29
Why not take a weekend trip to WWBW? It's only a few hours away, and you could go nuts trying out various horns. Call ahead, and Scott Kurtzweil could have a number of them pre-selected for you. Assuming, of course, that you could swing the transportation and get out of Interlochen for the weekend...
Jeff
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-03-26 18:12
Kevin,
I urge you to try more than six. I tried sixteen from one shop before making my final selection. Maybe take JJ's advice and go to WWBW. Or, go to the Oklahoma Symposium this summer. Go someplace where you can try at least a dozen. Unless there is one in the six you can try that really wows you and your teacher agrees, you should probably keep shopping. Be patient, and you will find the horn you want that you will treasure for a long time. Good luck!
-Claritoot26
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: msloss
Date: 2007-03-27 01:10
Or work with a professional (maybe even your teacher) to select the instrument. It could be a selection of one if it is an amazing instrument, or you might not find one in thirty. I highly recommend working with somebody who knows what to look for in an instrument. It really isn't about how many you play, but that you or the person helping you knows the difference between the right one and the wrong one. The best possible experience would be to go with your teacher or another pro and watch and listen to the process, and of course play the horns alongside.
Mark, I agree that fair and full disclosure up front is good. My own parents experienced the horror when I arrived for my first lesson with a "real" symphony player with a set of (really poor) 10S horns only to have him declare within about 5 minutes that I needed to make a change if I was serious about pursuing a career. Within a week he had me in touch with Messrs. Russianoff and Drucker about getting a set of R's, and those horns got me in to college and the A is still paying monetary dividends. And of course, it is still paying guilt dividends for my mother, who trots that little gem out when the mood suits. Still, he was very clear right from the get-go about what needed to happen, and you know what, he was right. Regrettably, the parents have to carry that sand if the child is going to be serious about the instrument. But then, how much do parents spend on sparring gear, soccer pads, horse tack, ski equipment, bicycles, ballet instruction, etc. for whatever their child pursues? How often do we actually know what the true cost is until we are knee deep?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kev182
Date: 2007-03-27 03:51
I ofcourse will be trying the clarinets out with my teacher =D
I called Lisa for clarinets.....she said she doesnt want to send me any because Mr. Williams has sent back way too many O_O.. argh
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-27 05:44
I agree with msloss (who by the way I bought from and can recommend him!)
"Or work with a professional (maybe even your teacher) to select the instrument."
I think the teacher must help you choose the clarinet. At least I'd feel I have to help my student choose a clarinet. I'd also feel responsible if I didn't help and they got a bad one....
"It could be a selection of one if it is an amazing instrument, or you might not find one in thirty."
Right. I got my clarinet from a huge selection of one.
By the way, Kevin, Nathan Williams was here for a lecture, masterclass and concert. I got the impression that he is a GREAT teacher for kids/young people.
A question for everyone - Do those teachers who have one specific clarinet they recommend also have a very clear direction they plan for the student? I got the impression from posts in the past that the direction is orchestral clarinet player. Is this correct? If it is, isn't it a bit limiting, especially for young people? I could be totally wrong here, so I'm asking for someone with more experience in this culture.
Thanks.
Post Edited (2007-03-27 15:27)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kev182
Date: 2007-03-27 09:00
For us at Interlochen anyway, there is no specific direction he pushes us to. He wants us to become flexible artisits capable of adapting to whatever our surrondings are. So... he feels the R13 is a flexible capable tool for achieving this.
Clarnibass, when you say you had a lot of bad criticism do you mean bad criticism he gave to you or you would have to him? =p
so far I have I think 6 Greenline R13s and 2 GL toscas to try. hopefully i will find something that will blow me away =D
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-03-27 15:06
Kevin,
So Nathan is your teacher. He comes to University of Maryland once or twice a year to perform. He plays in a trio with one of our violin faculty and his pianist wife. I saw him give a masterclass last year, and had the same impression as Clarnibass, that he seemed like an excellent teacher. I always enjoy his performances too. You're getting first-rate instruction there at Interlochen, so I'm sure you'll get a great clarinet. Happy hunting.
Claritoot26
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
