 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: catina
Date: 2007-03-22 02:09
No, not the clarinet on its knees, but...
I have an 11 year-old student who can comfortably rest her clarinet on her knees without slouching. Her hands are so tiny that she can barely reach the left hand B key. She can do so with the clarinet resting on her knees much more easily than when she tries to hold the clarinet in the regular position. The band Director had her use a neck strap which absolutely destroyed her emboucher, so I had her stop. But the BD won't let her rest the instrument on her knees.
Why is resting the clarinet on her knees a problem? Has anyone run into this before? Suggestions?
Thanks,
Catina
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2007-03-22 02:17
I've had problems with this before. I rest the clarinet lightly on my knees, as several of my teachers have suggested. Some of my students do likewise, and one band director told them not to do so. He compromised eventually by telling his students that only my students were allowed to do this.
Some prominent clarinetists who have played or taught that way include:
Harold Wright (Principal-Boston)
Robert Marcellus (Principal- Cleveland)
Anthony Gigliotti, who played on one knee (Principal- Philadelphia)
Donald Montanaro (Associate Principal- Philadelphia)
David Peck (Principal- Houston)
Karl Herman (Principal- New Jersey)
I hope this helps.
Chris Hill
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-03-22 03:36
RESTING it in the knee is fine.
many young students support the instrument with the knee, and remove their right thumb , e.g., the thumb is no longer supporting the instrument, with resultant embouchure problems.
if she is only resting it on her knee, thats ok until she is bigger.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-03-22 11:41
I'm an adult amateur with very small hands and thin fingers. As a child, I needed to rest the clarinet on my knee in order to support the weight of the instrument. I can understand why the student in question has embouchure trouble with a neck strap, because even today, putting the clarinet's weight onto a neck strap or harness on soprano clarinet changes the position of the mouthpiece in my mouth. When I've tried a neck strap on soprano clarinet, I catch myself taking the weight off the neck strap (which then becomes useless, of course!) and putting it back on my thumb, to give myself the leverage, flexibility and position I need for the best embouchure. I do use a neck strap with alto clarinet and contra-alto clarinet, but with those larger instruments, the ergonomic considerations are completely different and for some reason, the strap doesn't foul up my embouchure as it does on soprano.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-03-22 11:56
Marcellus students have said that he had his clarinets tuned so that they played correctly when he held the bell **between** his knees. He said that the tone was better this way.
Perhaps Greg Smith and David Hattner can confirm this.
Ken Shaw
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-03-22 12:51
The rule against resting the bell on one's knee(s) is just another archaic holdover from military procedures......like saluting officers and keeping your shoes shined.
Occasional rationalizations are heard that it stifles the tone.....but then , so does a sore thumb.
Bob Draznik
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Author: TonkaToy
Date: 2007-03-22 13:32
I play double lip and often rest the bell of my horn on my leg. As others have already mentioned it's not really a big deal, especially for a young player who may not have grown into the horn yet.
My only caveat, and this is from personal experience, is that it's possible that by resting the horn on her knee that your student will begin to bang her fingers down, especially going over the break, because she has that extra resistance. Just be on the lookout for that.
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Author: William
Date: 2007-03-22 14:43
Chris Hill--you may add my name to your (very impressive) list of clarinetists who have rested their clarinet bells on one knee for support :>)
Catina--the only reason I have ever heard for BD's not wanting the clarinet bell resting on the knee is that it makes it impossible to tap the foot/toe of the resting leg. It is also rather unstable for the clarinet to tap the other "whatever" as well. As a clarinetist and as a middle school band director (now retired), I never made my students tap either foot in order to "keep the beat". Ever hear an entire band or orchestra tapping their feet on stage?? If the student insisted on "tapping", I tried to encourage tapping only the toe inside the shoe with no apparent external motion of the footwear. What was encouraged was watching the baton and "thinking the beat" which is what most accomplished musicians do.
Supporting the case for not tapping ones foot, our local Capitol City band director--formerly Professor of Percussion at UW-Madison and (before that) tympanist for the Boston Pops Orchestra--often states that his sense of timing improved when he stopped tapping his foot as a student. I find that true in my own playing as well. A students sense of rhtythm should be ultimately internalized. Certain, counting and clapping excersizes have their "short term" value, but the student musician should then be encouraged to "think" or interanlly "feel" the beat and count with their brain only.
Bottom line: I see nothing wrong with a student clarinetist resting the bell on their knee for support. As an added "perk", doing this may improve their posture as playing from this position is vertually impossible while slouching in the chair. Hope you BD in question agrees.
(appolgies for the foot tap rant)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-22 15:27
I sometimes rest the bell on my right knee if I've got a note played with LH only so I can momentarily rest my right arm.
But I'd suggest this 11-y.o. uses a Quodlibet FHRED support (which attaches to the thumbrest) rather than a sling. Then the band director can't complain about the clarinet resting on the player's knees (which as you've read was/is done by several great players).
It's in a player's best interest to find what's comfortable posture-wise without compromising technique.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2007-03-22 15:37
Many many players use their knees to support the clarinet, it can create some intonation problems (e.g. long B flat). But I'd rather lip some notes up than develop carpal tunnel syndrome...
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-03-22 16:15
Its OK to place the bell on or between your knees. It may flatten the long tones; but, heck, lift it when needed.
I've seen symphony pro players do it --for extended periods of time.
Bob Phillips
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-03-22 17:14
"It would seem to me that a good policy is to practice standing up"
I just don't get it! What purpose does it serve to play clarinet standing up? Yes, I know soloists do it all the time....but that doesn't mean it makes sense. Why not play the piano standing up? There are many customs that we observe because of tradition but one should use one's own brain.
Bob Draznik
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Author: catina
Date: 2007-03-22 17:58
Thank you everybody for your advice and support. While I agree with such issues as practicing standing up and the concerns of intonation problems with the clarinet on the knee, my student is only 11. She has been playing the clarinet all of 5 months and I want her to find the clarinet fun and inspiring. We'll get to the nitty-gritty soon enough!
Thanks again!
Catina
Woodbridge, VA
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Author: samohan245
Date: 2007-03-22 19:24
when i first started i tried to rest it on my knees but it ruined my playing and i couldnt move freely with the clarinet
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-03-23 00:28
I practice standing up all the time. no real rhythm or reason, just from college and performance/soloist stuff, more convenient, etc.
It also, if you think about it makes the player rely on proper positioning (or less distractions for unproper positioning). Can't easily rest your bell on your leg while standing up.
I also use a neckstrap. but that's me and haven't been a student for 20yrs
Any update on that BD ? issue
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2007-03-23 00:42
In trad jazz the "front line" usually (not always) stands up. I am sure there is a historical reason for this, but I don't know what it is.
(Does anybody know why the front line in trad jazz is expected to stand?)
But at two places where I play, the front line sits down. I don't mind standing up unless it is a 1-1/2 hour set, then it gets tiresome. I have never played with my clarinet on my knees although I have very frail wrists. I need to hold the clarinet so that it is within microphone distance. A knee position would not work for that.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2007-03-23 01:31
Another fine clarinet player Bernard Walton rested his clarinet on his knee as well.
David Dow
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Author: catina
Date: 2007-03-23 01:58
No update yet. I gave her my card and told her to have him call me if he had a problem with the clarinet on her knees. Boy, she loved that!
C
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-03-23 11:55
Interesting that some people find that resting the clarinet on the knees spoils their embouchure, while other people find that a neck strap spoils their embouhure, while still others find that *not* resting the clarinet on the knees spoils their embouchure. We can choose which mouthpieces to buy, but we're stuck with our heights and our mouths and our teeth--yet another example of why "One size fits all" doesn't work for clarinet players.
>>I gave her my card and told her to have him call me if he had a problem with the clarinet on her knees. Boy, she loved that!>>
I love it, too! :-)
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-03-23 15:37
i've always had a problem resting a bass clarinet on my knees. i'm just not tall enough to reach the mpc
;~p
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-03-23 20:17
> . . .tried it with a bombard, but couldn't breathe.
Tell us more.
--
Ben
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-03-23 21:03
Golly, Ben, that booger is only 12" long so I gotta bend nearly double to play it on or between my knees . . . with my belly, I can't breathe very well in that position. It's almost as difficult for me as putting on socks! Eu
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2007-03-24 07:55
It has always mystified me how people could play with the clarinet resting on the knee. I just can't do it! I want to be able to, just to take some strain off of my right arm, but it's just uncomfortable for me. My teacher does it all the time, as do a few of my friends. I don't get it!
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Author: bawa
Date: 2007-03-24 11:40
Catina,
This is the reason (I have mentioned it before in another post, I think) they start younger or smaller built students on an Eb clarinet here, switching to a Bb when they grow big/strong enough.
Perhaps that could be an option you could look at another time.
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Author: catina
Date: 2007-03-24 14:09
Don't I wish I coud swict her to Eb! She's a perfect fit. Now if only I could get those pesky band directors to comply!
C
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-24 14:56
Does this band director happen to be a brass player?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-25 06:56
"I just don't get it! What purpose does it serve to play clarinet standing up? Yes, I know soloists do it all the time....but that doesn't mean it makes sense. Why not play the piano standing up? There are many customs that we observe because of tradition but one should use one's own brain."
AFAIK standing is more healthy than sitting, in general. Since I had a car accident (someone crashed into me from behind) I had some back problems. When I play sitting down it is worse than when I stand. I play almsot all my concerts standing up too anyway.
The piano comparison is not a good one. When you play clarinet you can stand very straight. With different heights of people and pianos it is not as comfortable for most to play piano standing up and sometimes it will cause a very bad posture.
Of oucrse if for someone it is more comfortable to practice sitting down there is nothing wrong with it. The same for resting the clarinet on your knees (which I never do).
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-03-25 15:19
ever seen a trumpet player rest their bell on their knee while playing. It affect their embouchure, their tone and their ability to read the music (unless it is placed on the floor - which could actually help bands out)
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