 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Cr8trAnd
Date: 2007-03-19 02:43
Hey guys,
I was thinking about getting a new mouthpiece. I was thinking a Vandoren B40 Lyre. Has anyone used this mouthpiece or any other Vandoren (or any other mouthpiece for that matter) mouthepiece? I was also thinking of upgrading to a Vandoren gold ligature.
Any comments?
Thanks
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-03-19 05:20
For me Vandoren is a piece of crap and I am not sure if I would suggest it for a student although they are better than the standard Buffet mouthpieces that comes with their instruments. Probably even just standard Zinner which cost a little bit more than Vandoren would be a lot better(at least way far more reedfriendly). I find Vandoren to be bright,not friendly enough with reeds, not very focused when playing really soft and just everything is more difficult on them. I would suggest trying any of the makers that use Zinner blanks like Grabner,Fobes,Gregory Smith etc. I also like Genussa Excellente mouthpieces which sells for example at wreiner music for around 80$. Try as many mouthpieces as possible and let your teacher listen to you or some of your friend. It could also help you to record your playing because what you hear between your ears isn't the same as what you hear on record.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2007-03-19 08:17
Save your money on the ligature...go get a $15 Bonade Inverted. It'll serve you much better than any of the fancy $40+ gee-whiz designs...
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2007-03-19 13:22
I have several students playing on Vandoren B40 lyre mouthpieces with very good results. Sound is round and full; they tend to be reed-friendly -- not too finicky about having to find the perfect reed, unlike some other Vandoren formulations (M13 in particular). For about US$60 street price they outperform some of the very expensive "boutique" mouthpieces I've seen.
Disclaimer: I personally play on a Ralph Morgan RM-06.
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Author: Cr8trAnd
Date: 2007-03-22 03:35
Thanks for all the advice. I think from advice also from my music teacher that I may go ahead with the B40 Lyre. I was also thinkin about a Rico "H" ligature. Anyone know about those.
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Author: kuteclar
Date: 2007-03-22 05:17
After trying to weed my way through all of the writings on mouthpieces, I believe I am one of the very few that plays on a M13Lyre. I did purchase a B40, 13Lyre by recommendation at a store; I originally liked the sound, but it takes a much softer reed than I am used to. I suppose I should buy some softer reeds instead of letting the mouthpiece sit around.
The mp does have a nice round sound and is not as touchy with the reeds.
The Bonade is kind of my backup choice of ligature. It works as long as you have gotten it fitted to your mp so it doesn't pop off, but it does tend to be a little bit brighter sounding - but very clear. In a master class at the University of Minn. maybe 2 years ago we did a blind ligature study with all the main ligs. My prof. said that although most of the students there use Bonade (mostly rec. of Burt), in all of his years, the Bonade has never won this "competition." The BG traditional does well - I use the silver one and love it. It's a great mixture of projection, dark/round tone and ease of tonguing.
I had a question now about the 5RV or M15. The 5RV seems to be popular and I'd like to give it a shot - but is there one in particular that is most popular? (5RV13, 5RV13Lyre, or 5RV, 5RVLyre). I like the sensitive response of the M13Lyre, but I do like that the B4013Lyre opens up the sounds and helps that little grunt that pops in here and there. Also, the M15 would be a bit more open than I'm used to. I'd love any additional comments!!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-03-22 12:57
Join the crowd and get one of each.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2007-03-22 15:44
All Vandoren mouthpieces are fine mouthpieces. The great thing about them is that there are so many that you are bound to find something you like. Other the past 20 years, I have played a B45, a B40, a 5RVlyre, an M15 and an M13Lyre. I guess as time goes I like my mouthpieces closer and closer...
Among open mouthpieces the B40 is my favorite.
Among the closed ones the M13Lyre is my favorite.
I currently play a Chadash-Hill that Chris Hill faced to feel like my favorite M13Lyre.
One thing you must understand abotu Vandoren mouthpieces, is that there is variability within a model, so if you can get a 3-4 B40Lyre so you can select the one that works best for you.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-03-22 16:09
Ok I agree that one mouthpieces is not for everyone. But in my opinion you can get much better mouthpieces for the same or slightly higer price than Vandoren. I advice you to try more than just Vandoren you might try: Selmer,Grabner,Zinner,Gennusa,Hite etc. BTW I think that Gennusa is the best mouthpieces for the price.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-03-22 16:31
The best thing about Vandoren mouthpieces, IMO, is that they are so inexpensive. Of the vandorens I've tried, I remember the B40 being my favorite. But the best part about having a vandoren is that if you break it or it chips or you lose it or ANYTHING else, you can get another to replace it and not break the bank. Plus they are everywhere so its easy to find them for trial. Nearly all music stores will have some type of vandoren mouthpiece available.
And I personally think that they're not too bad. Sure some will be better than others, but I find that the variation between mouthpieces isn't too much (from what I've tried) and that they play very well for being so cheap. I personally don't have one right now, but that doesn't mean I didn't strongly consider it.
Alexi
(Actually, I asked my band to purchase one for me for outdoor ceremonies . . . ESPECIALLY in the rain, but they never got around to it. But I'll have one eventually. More than likely a B40 for any playing where I'll have to march or move.)
US Army Japan Band
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-03-22 16:33
Iceland,
A lot of really good players in this country play Vandoren mouthpieces including top students and Orchestral principals. If Richie Hawley and Burt Hara can sound the way they do playing Vandorens then maybe the "crap" results you get from Vandoren are more about you than the mouthpiece or maybe you just didn't try enough to find a good one. I personally would take a Vandoren m13Lyre or M15 over any Grabner mouthpiece you put in front of me.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-03-22 16:37
However there's no guarantee that they haven't gotten the vandoren touched up by mouthpiece maker, or that they didn't go through dozens of the SAME model of vandoren mouthpiece to find the best one.
However, to be smart, you could probably do pretty well by selecting a vandoren mouthpiece you like, and finding a good mouthpiece maker to touch it up for a price, and you can have a hand finished mouthpiece of VERY good quality. That's what some people do on certain auction sites (they'll buy a stock mouthpiece of the type of material they want or a "base" model mouthpiece of a certain type for cheap and then have a mouthpiece maker adjust it to their preferences).
US Army Japan Band
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Author: JTS
Date: 2007-03-22 17:40
I currently use a B-40. During the past couple of years I have played on several different Kaspars, a few different Pynes, and various Vandoren models here and there until I settled on the B-40. Although it's likely that I will switch in the future, for the me the B-40 just gets the job done. In terms of the sound I am looking for, it works really well with my Selmer Recitals, I find it to be very reed friendly with Vandoren traditional cut reeds, and never have a problem get a "complete" sound that enables good projection in orchestra at all dynamic levels. And again, its 60 bucks, and if I break it, I can go through a dozen and find something similar that I will like as much, if not more. One thing I would say, is to maybe stay away from the 13 series. Of course if you are playing at 440 you will have to find some other way to bring the pitch down, but I find the 13 series to be less focussed and lacking some of the ring compared with non-13 series. I dont know what they do to bring the pitch down for the 13's, but it seems to make for a slightly more tubby sound.
JTS
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-03-22 18:20
bufclar who knows if these players go through dozen of reeds to find concert quality reeds or are trying really hard to get the proper result with them. Vandoren is not a mouthpiece you forget about and just make music with it. Sure the player need to play well and have proper air support etc. But the problems I had with MANY mouthpieces includinc Vandoren was that they were not to reed friendly and lacked focused in soft sensitiv passages. I think that this has much more to do with how the mouthpieces is finished. The type of blank you preferr is just the one that producue the kind of sound you like. I have tried several Zinner based mouthpieces from various makers and there is always the same problem not focused when playing soft.
Then the bottom line is that very good player could achive the same result on different mouthpieces but some would make his life easier than others.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-03-22 20:11
Iceland clarinet wrote:
> Then the bottom line is that very good player could achive the
> same result on different mouthpieces but some would make his
> life easier than others.
Correct. And considering Vandoren is the choice of some people who make their living playing clarinet, it follows that they make mouthpieces that are suitable for those people.
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-03-22 20:59
Iceland,
I play an M13 Lyre and have no problems finding really good reeds for it. I don't find any thing wrong with the mouthpiece that makes it difficult to balence reeds to it. I'm not aware of any mouthpiece that lets you just slap a reed on and play. I notice that you use the term "Reed Friendly" in a lot of your posts about mouthpieces. I'm not really sure what you mean by that phrase or why it seems to be such a big factor in your mouthpiece selection.
My Vandoren plays very well through the whole range of the instrument, it is quite easy to play very soft with a focused sound . It plays in tune and will do just about everything I ask it to. I think it is quite easy to play and yeilds very consistant results with minimal effort on my part with reeds or anything else. I think more about making music and less about the mouthpiece and I find myself in complete disagrement with your take on Vandorens and other discussions about mouthpieces and reeds.
I've seen many of your posts about how much you love the Grabner mouthpiece you play and now some months later it is worn and instead of getting it fixed or getting a new Grabner, you are ready to get a new piece by a different maker. I don't understand why this is. Listen to the advice of Bonade. Take your mouthpieces out on a boat, close your eyes and pick the one you like and then go home and practice. We all look for new products and try various things from time to time but the best thing to do in my opinion is find a set up that works for you and then stick with it.
Players make the equipment sound great not the other way around.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-03-22 21:14
> I'm not aware of any mouthpiece that lets you just slap a reed on and play.
Then I must be doing something wrong.
--
Ben
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-03-22 21:20
"Then I must be doing something wrong."
I meant that I don't know of any mouthpiece that is so "Reed Friendly" that every reed in a box works perfectly.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-03-22 21:23
> I meant that I don't know of any mouthpiece that is so "Reed
> Friendly" that every reed in a box works perfectly.
I consider nine out of ten "friendly enough". And sometimes it simply isn't the mouthpiece's fault when a dud is on the table.
--
Ben
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-03-22 21:36
"I consider nine out of ten "friendly enough". And sometimes it simply isn't the mouthpiece's fault when a dud is on the table."
This is why I am asking Iceland what he means by Not Reed Friendly Enough in reference to Vandoren mouthpieces. I want to know why its so hard to find a good reed for a mouthpiece because I dont have any trouble at all.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-03-22 23:15
On my B40 mouthpiece I used about 8 years ago I got maybe 2 concert quality reeds and 3-4 practice. Now with the Grabner I get about 5 concert quality and 4-5 practice reeds. Playing with other mouthpieces I had to buy maybe 12 boxes of reeds per year but now I bought 5 boxes of reeds in end of August and I started to use them in middel of September as I speak I've been playing for about 5 hours each day,took part in a Orchestra class in January and I'm just starting to use the 3rd box so I have 30 reeds left.
And the best is I don't have to mess much with the reeds maybe 1 or 2 in each box needs adjustment.
I stand by the fact that although my mouthpieces are not cheap they pay themselve up in reed friendliness in just 4-6 months. So for me I can't justify to buy cheap mouthpiece that makes my work harder and then have to spend a lot more on reeds when I can get better pieces and save in reeds cost.
When I try mouthpieces I want them to accept a lot of different brands of reeds and to give me at least 8-9 playable reeds and 4 concertquality.
BTW: Walter Grabners mouthpieces are way far the most popular mouthpieces at the time in Iceland and almost every professional player here plays on them.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-03-22 23:25
Iceland clarinet wrote:
> BTW: Walter Grabners mouthpieces are way far the most popular
> mouthpieces at the time in Iceland and almost every
> professional player here plays on them.
Without making comment on Walter's mouthpieces, Iceland , or the quality of playing in Iceland - there are only about 300,000 people in all of Iceland, so extrapolation from your experience with all of Iceland's professionals to a significantly larger audience is difficult at best.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-03-22 23:28
I just want to go on record as saying the Vandoren line is very consistant and it should be easy enough to find one or two different facings that work well for you. There is some truth to the notion that they have a slightly bright sound but for many of us that can be a good thing.
I have found 10 playable reeds (not all performance quality mind you) per box of 56 Rue Lepics on my M13 and M15 for the last 6 months and haven't looked back. There are many good mouthpieces on the market but I doubt you'll find anything else which is that consistant at that price point.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-03-23 00:25
Iceland,
"I stand by the fact that although my mouthpieces are not cheap they pay themselve up in reed friendliness in just 4-6 months. So for me I can't justify to buy cheap mouthpiece that makes my work harder and then have to spend a lot more on reeds when I can get better pieces and save in reeds cost."
My concerns over your coments have nothing to do with the price of the mouthpiece. My concerns are you saying that Vandorens are "crapy" when it seems to me from your posts that you have a somewhat limited experience with different mouthpieces or access to them or the knowledge of how to work on balencing reeds in a timely manner. Getting reeds to work on a Vandoren mouthpiece is really hardly a task at all. I'm also not quite sure why you need to use so many different brands of reeds? Is it hard to get one type all the time in Iceland?
BTW: I live in Chicago (population 2.8 million) and only know of one professional that plays a Grabner mouthpiece.....Lawrie Bloom.
Post Edited (2007-03-23 00:36)
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-03-23 00:40
mouthpieces being reed friendly go back to manufacturing and finish. The table being flat, rails even, tip properly finished. vandoren seems to have good quality control. I have a bunch of Selmers, Woodwinds, Vandy, etc mpcs and they are all reed friendly. I can also tell you that all the tables are flat, etc. I have a Grabner K11 and K14 here too and they are reed friendly.
It seems with profitability many manufacturers may have let their quality slip so consistency may slip. I purchase mostly older vintage mpcs, back when quality was more consistent, theoretically.
Of course, reed consistency - quality is also an issue - ie with the butt end being a consistent curve left to right and a flat table. it's a natural material and varies.
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Author: am0032
Date: 2007-03-23 00:41
It's weird how some people have such great luck with Vandoren mouthpieces and some don't. I have also heard that some Vandoren artists don't use Vandoren as their primary mouthpieces though. I have had several students that struggle with Vandorens only to have them try a $40 Lomax student mouthpiece and have a much easier time of playing, finding reeds, etc.
Adam
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-03-23 00:54
bufclar if you had two mouthpieces in front of you and the one was really easy with reeds but the other was difficult with reeds but after balencing them it gave you the same result which one would you pick ?
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Author: doublej
Date: 2007-03-23 04:55
Cr8trAnd
There is nothing wrong with a vandoren mouthpiece. I have one that i like and will occasionally play. If I may suggest there has been a lot of talk about "reed friendly" mouthpieces. this tends to deal with a lot of things concerning the mouthpiece and the amount of work you do to your reeds. I would suggest trying a few mouthpieces if you can and then take a couple of reeds out of the box that you are using and test the three best mouthpieces with those reeds. This is a rather un-scientific approach but if there is one mouthpiece that plays the best consistantly it more than likely has proportionate and manageable dimensions.
Best of luck
jeff
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Author: gwie
Date: 2007-03-23 08:07
I've loved my Vandoren mouthpieces.
That being said, I've gone through A LOT of stock to find the ones I like. I think I must have played over thirty M15's to find two that played really well, AND were fairly similar.
Well, I ended up dropping one of them by accident the other day while teaching, and all of a sudden all those hours trying out mouthpiece after mouthpiece flashed by...
...so now I have two of Walter's CXZ_K11's, and they're just wonderful.
Post Edited (2007-03-23 08:08)
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2007-03-23 16:22
I know many players using Vandoren mouthpieces who do little to no work on their reeds and sound fantastic.
Then there are people like Alessandro Carbonare and Andrew Marriner, who as far as I know play on some type of B40, who absolutely transcend the instrument. And all with a Vandoren mouthpiece.
I don't like them that much. But you need to learn on something. And if you can sound good on a Vandoren mouthpiece, then you may be able to find something you like more after that.
I think every student should be given something like a Fobes debut and they have to audition to buy a new mouthpiece. If their sound production is faulty, then they are not allowed to change until they sort that out.
Sure there'd be more drop outs. But it would stop so much useless discussion and speculation! People would actually know what they were looking for, and could trust their own playing.
Until someone is at this level, I don't think they have the authority to make a reasonable choice.
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