 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-21 18:01
Last night I got grief from a conductor for tuning to other notes rather than just tuning solely to the note given by the oboe.
Normally when I check my tuning I like to play other related notes (3rds and 5ths) to check the respective intervals above and below the tuning note given.
What I couldn't believe was the amount of opposition I got for doing this from other players as well - I did say 'I'm checking tuning on the whole instrument, not just the tuning on that one note'.
String players don't get grief for checking the tuning on their other open strings, so why should I get it in the neck for checking the tuning in other registers?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-03-21 18:56
> String players don't get grief for checking the tuning on their other open
> strings, so why should I get it in the neck for checking the tuning in other
> registers?
NIH - Not Invented Here.
They might simply not understand the fact that despite the fixed tone holes a clarinet may, can and possibly should be fine-tuned too.
--
Ben
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-03-21 19:00
Quote:
String players don't get grief for checking the tuning on their other open strings, so why should I get it in the neck for checking the tuning in other registers? Well, stringed instruments have to tune each string, but even so, you SHOULDN'T 'get it in the neck' for checking your tuning on other notes. But it happens I guess. If people keep giving you grief, maybe you can show them with a tuner how when a clarinet tunes to an A or Bb, that it doesn't necessarily mean that the fifth is in tune. And if they refuse to even allow you an explanation and or they don't allow you to take the time to rebuttle their cries of woe, simply grin on the inside at them for being unwaiveringly ignorant, as in my mind, only someone who is ignorant would be so stubborn as to not even LISTEN to an explanation because, well, obviously you are wrong and they are 'right' and that's that.
Alexi
[EDIT] I guess, (after reading tictactuxs post above) that really, any instrument should be tuned as many times as there are 'sections' tht can affect notes to assemble. Trumpets should tune each valve and open, french horns (oh man . . . that'd be a mess), clarinets at the bell, middle, and barrel, etc. etc. At least if you were interested in getting your instrument as fine tuned as possible, every time.
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2007-03-21 19:10)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-21 19:07
What makes this scenario even funnier is the fact that this conductor is also a clarinet player!
Note I said clarinet 'player' there as opposed to 'clarinettist'.
My former teacher, who I regard as a fine clarinettist was the one who used to get me to tune to intervals rather than just tuning the one note, and for good reason.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-03-21 19:21
In an old issue of Woodwind World, there was a profile of Doriot Anthony Dwyer, the great principal flutist of the Boston Symphony, who was, I believe, the first woman to be a major symphony principal. They said she wowed the audition committee by checking the tuning note against intervals all over the instrument, to make sure she was in tune on notes other than A.
So you did it right (unless you tuned a tritone away).
In fact, it's just as important to learn to play in-tune intervals as it is to play a perfect unison. See one of my favorite articles, http://www.lawrence.edu/dept/conservatory/studio/oboe/practice.shtml.
Ken Shaw
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2007-03-21 21:57
I also feel the unhappiness of others when I play a 5th or 4th to the tuning note. As a 2nd player it is important to get my throat tones in tune.
I usually just play a quick "beep" on the e and f# and that is enough to hear where the note is, tuning-wise.
I have been in groups where people just play anything during tuning and that is usually enough to cause an over-reaction by the concert master and conductor about just playing the tuning note.
johng
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: packrat
Date: 2007-03-22 05:58
What note did he use? Concert Bb? I'm playing with a small community band group who is now tuning to concert F all the time. Drives me nuts. I tune with my tuner before we start and use Concert Bb and F. He tunes the rest of the clarinets with his tuner to that throat G without also checking the Bb. I've tried to nicely suggest he also tune us to Concert Bb as well, but he doesn't understand what I'm saying (trombone player), so I've just resorted to passing my tuner down the row. I've played for years and I don't remember ever having someone tune exclusively to something other than Concert Bb - orchestra yes, but not band. Does anybody else do this? It's been a while since I played in a band so has the thinking changed?
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Author: ned
Date: 2007-03-22 06:27
I always ask the person playing the chord changes for his concert A (for jazz) and hope to hell the others follow suit.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2007-03-22 08:26
Chris, the conductor knows nothing. Every good clarinetist needs to make sure the 5ths and 4ths etc are near in tune to the concert A so that the whole instrument can be somewhat in-tune. When i sit in a professional wind section all the players do it.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2007-03-22 09:07
Some thoughts...
1. If you tune the intervals around concert 'A' (by looking for the absence of beats at the perfect ratios of frequency), you might find the instrument is better in tune in some keys than others... all to do with just vs. even temperament.
2. Concert 'A' is a horrid note to tune to! Bb is better.
3. A while back I was having great trouble tuning to concert Bb. I checked my tuner and found my own 'C' was out! One of the cork shims was collapsing and the clearance on the last pad was wrong...
4. and the best way to tune to a cornet section is to tune concert Bb (C) and concert Eb (F). I have no idea why... presumably because cornet is most definitely built in a particular key. If you just tune the written 'C', the 'F' is often horrendous.
5. Which 'C'? I can get four on mine ;-D. Seriously, it's a good check on your embouchure/reed to be able to play them all in tune in quick succession. You'll find out if your embouchure is unconsciously pulling the note if you try the other octaves.
so yes, it is worth tuning to a variety of notes.
Post Edited (2007-03-22 10:48)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-22 14:25
As it was a concert band we tuned to concert Bb, so I generally test the other chord tones in Bb Major up and down the instrument to be sure about my tuning.
If it's orchestral (and therefore the A is given), then I tune to the chord tones in concert D minor.
That's unless I'm playing oboe and giving the tuning note (438Hz if it's cold, and 440Hz when we've all been playing for a bit and warmed up). For the higher brass players I usually give a concert Bb (after I've given the strings and other woodwinds their A), and a low Bb for the trombones and lower brass to tune to.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-22 16:55
I don't think that'd be wise - though saying that, it would give me the freedom to reallocate the players (ie. putting the better players in the positions taken up by the weaker players currently hogging them only because they're committee members) and sack several brass players of the 'higher, louder, faster' school of trumpet playing and get better players in.
No, I'd rather have the credit for playing music rather than taking the credit for waving my arms around.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2007-03-22 17:54
Not just trying to be contrary but what would happen if you followed the conductor's advice? I would assume his logic is that it interferes with others tuning up. Is your concert A on clarinet that unstable or is it just sharp?
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-22 23:32
My tuning (concert Bb or A) is usually spot on, but as I play a Series 9 I do have to adjust to bring the lower register down to pitch, which is why I like to tune to intervals while the tuning note is being played as well as putting RH fingers down and other corrections for the lower register to be in tune.
Just thought I'd mention this conductor is a lady and only takes up the baton when the regular conductor isn't there (who is a bloke and a clarinettist, and who doesn't mind me tuning to intervals at all). Though I'm sure she would be perfectly happy if I just played only the same pitch as the tuning note given - strange as she's a singer and they usually do all manner of 'tuning up' exercises that make me (me-me-meeee!) look very tame by comparison.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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