 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-03-19 06:13
I managed to stumble across two mouthpieces that both say steelite ebonite on them. What i can't quite figure out is why someone would call these mouthpieces this way when they have a similar smell to a chedeville style rod rubber. (putrid rubber like smell) Is there any actual history to who coined up this phrase? only mouthpiece maker that i could probably think of are the woodwind company and riffault.
Are the bore chambers shaped differently or what? faster, cheaper rubber process? (although I can see that the rubber in the steelite ebonite mpc that i'm looking at has an interior with rings that share the rod rubbers bore chamber)
so whats the deal?
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-19 10:33
It's just a posh name for the same substance - hard rubber = ebonite - same stuff, different name.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-03-19 14:52
"Steel Ebonite" is trademark of Woodwind Co. and Chedeville/Lelandais.
"Steelite Ebonite" is trademark of Riffault Company.
These trademarks indicate the hardness of the rubber and it has nothing to do with mouthpiece manufacturing process: molded, milled from rod rubber etc.
The harder rubber resonates different than the softer one.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2007-03-19 20:45)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-03-19 15:56
Its all good.
Another tip off to "good" is "Qualite Superioure" sometimes appearing in the English translation form of "Superior Quality" alongside of the table.
OR...if you are a modernist..."proprietary rod rubber"
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-03-19 16:14
...or, as with cheap shoes from someplace else: "ALL MAN MADE MATERIAL"
--
Ben
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-03-19 16:52
so the purpose was just to reintroduce rubber. i mean i can understand qualite superior labeled mouthpieces, but steel ebonite as a label for rubber is just confusing. that's like saying titanium resistance! or something of another
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-03-19 17:40
Are you really that naive, C2thew? Simple names don't sell products. The consumer wants hype, not directness. We're gonna have to send you back to school to re-take Marketing 101.
![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
Post Edited (2007-03-19 18:28)
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-03-19 18:07
"Steel Ebonite" (Woodwind Co.) was a process registered with the US patent office and is one of the "HARDEST" forms of hard rubber ever made.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-03-19 18:38
An interesting [re]discussion of hard rubber. Having seen many mps, Conn et al, with Steel--- on it, its good to know [Vytas et al] of the trademark status. So, my question, could the "hardening [?vulcanizing] agent" be an iron sulfide, Fe 2 or Fe 3, or other, whereby steel would come to mind ?? Do the TM's describe the chemical processing? PM thots, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-03-19 21:01
Don,
This is the patent number from the mouthpiece "Patent Process No 1452953". Numbers are worn. So, I'm not sure if they're correct.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-20 00:03
I've seen the old Selmer (London) 'Console' ebonite bodied clarinets with the words 'Steel Ebonite' stamped on the top joint.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-03-20 02:39
TKS, Vytas, its correct, retrievable, viewable [I prefer USPTO], printable [even tho a bit difficult]. However, its a facing machine with no mention of materials, inventor Bercioux, FR, but NYC resident !, 1923, US 1,452,953 for those interested. Alseg's ref., as said, "more than what was asked for", is excellent. To me, it points out the wide variety of rubber materials [latecies included], elemental sulfur, basic cmpds employed, with heating and pressure applied. So, I assume that there are a multitude of "rubber hardening" processes, "to each his own". I believe Brad Behn has researched this field, perhaps he can help inform us, please, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Brad Behn
Date: 2007-03-23 23:10
The terms “Steel Ebonite” and “Steelite Ebonite” were used with a variety of vintages and brands and hardness of hard rubber clarinet mouthpieces. The main difference between the two logos is that “Steel Ebonite” was used on older Chedeville made mouthpieces whereas the “Steelite Ebonite” logo was used on fairly recently made Riffault mouthpieces as well as currently made Kenosha-Woodwind Company mouthpieces. I discount these logos as having any defining importance in a mouthpiece’s quality, or its material density and hardness.
Please note that “Hard Rubber” and “Steel Ebonite” and “Steelite Ebonite” and “Vulcanite” and “Ebonite” etcetera are all (generally speaking) the same thing…Hard Rubber. Each of these names describes a rubber-sulfur compound that has been cured in a way to have sufficient hardness to be machined like hard wood or some softer metals.
There were many different compounds and cures of hard rubber. The higher the quantity of rubber dust and the shorter the curing process the lower the grade. Interestingly these two things didn’t necessarily go hand in hand. One could make hard rubber with an unusually high proportion of rubber dust combined with a longer cure and the result would remain a lower grade…at a high cost. Because the cost of compound materials was less than the cost of a long cure process, the main defining factor in price was the length of time the hard rubber needed to be cured.
Ebonite was a term used to describe hard rubber as apposed to soft rubber (used in soft soled shoes or rubber bands etcetera).
“Steel Ebonite” was a term that was used originally as a marketing tool to help define the attributes of hard rubber. Ebonite was not a term used exclusively for mouthpieces but it was a term used in the rubber industry as a whole. (Today, Ebonite is a term most recognized in the bowling industry.) When Ebonite was first developed, it had the black appearance of Ebony and it was hard enough to be easily carved or machined into a myriad of products (combs, dentures, telephone ear and mouth pieces, book covers, and most importantly…clarinet mouthpieces).
Chedeville combined the words “Steel” and “Ebonite” to help market the attributes of hard rubber’s strength and stability. In the early 20th Century hard rubber was the modern miracle plastic of its day. It was touted (by the rubber industry) to be “strong like steel.” This of course is a false claim but the term took because we still see it in use today!
In the early days of hard rubber manufacturing, wood was much more commonly used as a material for many different things. Ebonite, known for strength, beauty, hardness and density was commonly used in finer objects of art and as a practical household material where strength is necessary. The problem with wood is its lack of stability and this is certainly the case with wooden mouthpieces as well. When hard rubber was beginning to be used instead of Blackwood for mouthpieces, the company making rubber mouthpieces (Chedeville) looked for catchy phrases to sell their new material. The rubber industry was already touting Ebonite’s “steel like strength” and so the manufacturer of rubber mouthpieces added the term “steel” to the well known term “ebonite” to help market their new mouthpieces. As Allan points out, some of the other catchy phrases that Chedeville used were "Qualite Superioure" and “Artistic Facing.”
I have measured the hardness of many mouthpieces with several different approaches (probably the most easy to use is the Shore D scale) and I have found no real truth to the assertion that Steel Ebonite mouthpieces were made from a special and harder rubber. Steel Ebonite and Steelite Ebonite mouthpieces were simply Chedeville or Riffault or now current Woodwind-Kenosha blanks that had the catchy logo engraved on them. The somewhat old Woodwind NY mouthpieces commonly used a Steel Ebonite logo as well but they were most commonly made out of Chedeville blanks.
Chedeville made countless mouthpieces but only engraved the term “Steel Ebonite” on a small percentage of them. Great Chedevilles exist with the term “Steel Ebonite” and other great Chedevilles exist without any term at all. It was all marketing. Science or hardness had little to do with it. Regarding “Steelite ebonite,” I have not experienced a great mouthpiece with this term engraved. (I just don’t seem to like mouthpieces that were made by Riffault at the time that they used this trademark and I don’t like Woodwind mouthpieces made in Kenosha either). The newer Woodwind Kenosha blanks are made from raw rubber blanks that are made from the same material as other famous mouthpieces we all know (German blanks from http://www.nyh.de ). But the other mouthpieces don’t share the term “Steelite Ebonite,” even though they do share the same hardness.
Bottom line, the terms “Steel Ebonite” and “Steelite Ebonite” do not refer to the hardness of the mouthpiece in question. They are merely logos.
Brad Behn
http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-03-23 23:20
wow that was a nice essay brad. =)
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-23 23:36
I thought 'Steel Ebonite' was lead-free ebonite (unleaded!) - with the lead substituted for steel due to the toxicity of lead.
Funny what I read into things.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-03-24 00:28
I thought that "Steel Ebonite" was the stuff that destroyed Superman's superhuman powers......................
I really must stop watching so much telly.
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