 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clariphant in Bb
Date: 2007-03-15 01:37
I recently oiled some keys on my R13 Greenline, and, though for the most part it worked, I feel I should have used a more precise applicator, because I got some oil on a few parts of the body that cannot be easily reached without removing keys. The greenline body means that the oil won't be absorbed. It just kind of "sits" there. I cleaned the areas as well as I could with Q-tips and absorbent papers, but there are still areas (under the right hand Eb and C keys behind the crow's foot, for instance) that have a (small) amount of oil remaining. I really don't want to remove any keys. No oil got on any pads. Will it safely evaporate? Could oil harm a greenline body? Should I do anything else or just leave it as it is? I will definitely be using a toothpick/needle next time :(
Post Edited (2007-03-15 01:38)
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-03-15 02:05
Disclaimer - I sell an aerospace synthetic key oil)
I do not know what resin Buffet uses in their Greenline material but most resins will react - with different degrees - with petroleum based oils. I would not worry too much because most cured resins will not "dissolve" quickly when exposed to petroleum oils. You can probably get most of it off by taking the end of a kitchen paper towel and twist it into a pointed rod and slide the thin tip to the offending area and it will remove the oil. This little trick works in areas too narrow for the tip of a Q-tip.
When oiling it is best to use the tiniest drop possible and let it be sucked up by capillary action into the rod junction or articulation point to be oiled. Many good oilers have a long thin hypodermic metal needle at 21-23 GA which delivers a very tiny drop of oil - which is all that is needed (most people oil too much and too often !!!) In lieu of a delivery mechanism for a small drop of oil you can put a little oil in a flat dish and take a toothpick and dip it into the oil and then invert it to 90 degrees and a small drop will form at the end of the toothpick which can then be applied where needed. Dropper bottles often deliver too large a drop of oil for the amount needed and you get spillage and overrun.
Some manufacturers now make synthetic oils for use as key oils but all synthetics are not the same in lubricating ability and IME usually do not contain a molecular bonding agent or anti-rust or corrosion additatives. A good synthetic oil will not change viscosity with temperature changes within a wide range of environmental temperature and will not evaporate to form a varnish or sludge like petroleum based oils which do evaporate. Synthetic oils also usually do not react with resins.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: Clariphant in Bb
Date: 2007-03-15 03:16
Thanks for the prompt reply. I've actually been using this to oil my keys, and it appears to be both petroleum-based and "weather conscious," at least according to the description on the bottle. Is that even possible?
http://www.wwbw.com/Al-Cass-Fast-Valve-Oil-i44962.music
I got a bottle of it 8 years ago when I started clarinet, because I asked the local music store for key oil, and that's what they gave me... Though it does say key oil on the bottle, I'm not so sure it's the right thing. It does not seem to have harmed any instrument I've used it on, but I might try something else. Could this product be harming my instruments? I feel dumb for never realizing it said valve oil on the bottle -_-
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-03-15 04:56
I have heard of some using trasmition fulid (yes, for your car) for keys.
anyone else try this?
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-03-15 06:08
i use the doctor's synthetic oil. good stuff. a very small drop goes a long way.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-03-15 12:39
Why use transmission fluid, when it is formulated for a specific set of conditions which do not exist in a musical instrument's mechanism?
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-03-15 12:52
(Disclaimer - I sell an aerospace synthetic key oil)
Clariphant in Bb - the oil that you reference is obviously a petroleum based product from the label warning. The quality of this oil may or may not be OK for use on clarinet keywork - because I have no personal experience with this brand. IMO usually you have to pay for what you get and premium synthetic key oils are much more costly than the corresponding petroleum based oils, and IMHO are a quantum step in the right direction for oiling woodwind keywork. No need to buy 30-60 mL of oil because this quantity will supply a busy clarinet repair shop for a year (less than 1 mL will oil a clarinet a couple times in a year).
Besides better lubrication properties and viscosity stability at higher temperatures, where petroleum based products evaporate or weep out of where they are supposed to be, synthetic oils leave no residue to cause further wear or friction because they do not evaporate (best synthetic oils - be careful because imposters abound). Look for synthetics that also contain anti-rust and anti-corrosion inhibitors if you have non-stainless steel springs and rods.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
Post Edited (2007-03-15 12:55)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-03-15 14:19
At this year's BASSOONarama, I sat in on a session on bassoon maintenance. The instructor brews his own key oil consisting of one part 3:1 oil and 3 parts STP. He had the students remove each key, wipe out the old, dirty oil, apply a drop of his "snake oil" to the pivot and re-assemble the instrument.
The procedure, while painful on a clarinet, kept the oil off of the wood --because the lubricant was applied with a toothpick (and mopped up where necessary).
He claimed that the high viscosity of the STP "calms" the free play in the pivots and quiets the keywork.
Bob Phillips
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-03-15 15:20
(Disclaimer-I sell an aerospace key oil)
Very interesting Bob and a unique way to increase the viscosity of petroleum based oil. NASA developed aerospace lubricants and synthetic oils also come in a wide range of viscosities from very thin to very viscous. Viscous oils have been used by technicians to "quiet - calm" noisy keywork for years. A good swedging job, alignment, and regulation are the best answer but viscous oils are sometimes employed too. The qualities of synthetic oils - no evaporation, temperature viscosity stability, molecular bonding to metal surfaces, and anti-rust and anti- corrosion properties IMO may be superior to the Bassoonist’s Snake Oil. Making up one batch however would generate enough key oil for 10,000 years.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
Post Edited (2007-03-15 15:26)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-03-16 01:06
Quite a few technicians do indeed use STP. But I'm not sure that is a reason to use it though!
I have used the synthetic type oils that Omar describes for a long time now.
Post Edited (2007-03-16 10:59)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-03-16 13:59
I'm just becoming aware of "soft fingering" in quiet, legato passages --trying to add that technique to my quiver of effects. The cork pads in my Buffet RC make quite a "popping" noise when snapping them closed in fast work.
I don't hear the end-wise free play in my keywork while playing. The horn is pretty new, but clearly imperfect in its mechanisms.
Thus, my curiosity about breaking out the little bottle of Bassoon Snake oil and trying it on some of the keys with a lot of axial "slop." I guess I'll have to try it.
Bob Phillips
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