 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2007-03-14 18:41
A year or so ago I posted about a woman getting the most beautiful tone on her microphone set up and wondered what it could possibly be. I finally found out. She uses a Samson C301. These are not expensive! I am going to order it from Zounds.
The fellow that got the information for me E-mailed me with that information and went on to say "it does require Phantom power to operate. Lots of PAs have that built into them. To be on the safe side for performing on random PAs it would be good to have a separate "phantom power supply."
I have read about phantom power supply on this board but don't know how this works at all. I already have a microphone cord. Could somebody explain the workings of the phantom power supply? Zounds also sells them but I don't want to order the wrong one.
Thanks for your information.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-03-14 19:04
I can't be very specific about the brands you're using - just a generic explanation:
Some kinds of microphones need energy to operate (for the sake of the example, pretend they have some kind of amplifier built-in), others (passive, like speakers, but the other way round) do not. The former now need some kind of power supply, either a battery built-in into the microphone body, or through the wires of the microphone cable.
Now the ingenious part of all that phantom thing is that you can plug a "plain old boring" microphone into a socket providing phantom power, and it still works and - supposedly - doesn't do any damage.
A phantom power supply simply "injects" some current into the microphone cable so that you can use an "unpowered" socket in your amplifier.
I hope this has been generic enough to make you tell the mic vendor what exactly you already have and what you need to get goin'.
--
Ben
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2007-03-14 19:17
It is getting clearer to me at least.
The places that I play, with maybe two exceptions, all have PA systems set up on stage. So if the PA system was already set up, then I probably wouldn't need the phantom system?
And in the places were there is no PA set up, private parties, etc, then I would use it?
It sounds like I may need to buy my own amp at some point although usually somebody brings one along (banjo players etc). I only have a portable at home with the unlikely name of Pignose, and I have never taken that anywhere, as it has to be fully charged.
Thanks for bearing with me on this.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-03-14 19:29
Carol Dutcher wrote:
> The places that I play, with maybe two exceptions, all have PA
> systems set up on stage. So if the PA system was already set
> up, then I probably wouldn't need the phantom system?
The unhfortunate part of "probably" is that sometimes you will need to provide your own phantom power. I can guarantee you that the day you don't take your own power supply is the day their PA won't have it.
Murphy's Law.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-03-14 21:16
The same company that makes the mics you want also has a very inexpensive compact source of phantom power.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SPhantom/
Also, the XLR cables used for mics can be had with a battery adapter for the purpose of supplying power.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-03-14 21:37
Carol...Don't take this as gospel as it simply represents my thoughts: There are two basic types of mikes Condenser mikes and "the other kind". Condenser mikes are the ones with Phone plug ends{like a guitar cable) and usually(always?) are battery powered. "The other" use no batteries and have special cables with three holes in the plug....I think these are the ones that use "phantom power" either off of an amp or a mixer. Obviously I'm no expert on the subject but have used both kinds without knowing much about them. Haha...the Pignose.....will give you a real raunchy sound if you hook up to it. The newest model can use 110v power, has tubes, and is highly rated. My one son still has his original.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2007-03-14 23:17
This little bit of complication is one reason why I don't allow "outside" microphones to be used with my group. Some vocalists are really wedded to condenser microphones (although for live use the difference is hardly noticeable out in the house), but if you don't know what mike is being used where, the phantom power switch might not be set the right way at the right time.
I had one vocalist who, on her first job, brought her condenser mike on the stand as we were setting up and swapped it out with one of my Shure dynamics without telling me. She comes up for her first number in the second set, starts in singing in her usual overly dramatic manner, and nothing comes out. She was able to swap over to another mike (a dynamic) and continue, but it took a while to figure out what she had done.
Once it was discerned that she had switched microphones, it was simple to toggle the phantom power on. By that time, she was so "unnerved" that her favorite microphone (a crutch, just like her custom-rearrangments of the vocal charts (she never did transfer the rehearsal numbers and letters, by the way - many minutes wasted during rehearsals with that problem) that she was half drunk - another hazard of live music.
Getting that issue resolved was the easy part. The hard part, which pissed me off to no end, was finding the microphone that she had removed. It took an extra half hour at tear-down time to find it, as she had not bothered to return it to the microphone case after she had removed it. I sat on her pay until it turned up, and was prepared to dock her for the total had it not surfaced.
Since that time, only company equipment. If they don't like that, they can sing somewhere else...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Mark Horne
Date: 2007-03-15 07:40
I think I can provide some clarification. Virtually all professional microphones use the 3-pin XLR connectors and cables, no matter what type of mic it is. The two most commonly used types of mics are condenser, which require a small amount of electrical current to operate; and dynamic, which operate with no additional power. Some condenser mics use an internal battery to supply the current, however, most require "phantom" power - this is supplied by the (pre-)amplifier, and it is sent along the same XLR cable that connects the mic. Some older or lower-end PA amps may not supply phantom power at all - which is where the external phantom power supplies come in.
If I were performing in various venues using the house sound system, I would seriously consider using a rugged dynamic mic and avoiding phantom power issues altogether. A Sure SM57 is world-standard workhorse mic used in hundreds of applications (including the presidential podium), and can be had anywhere for $99. They are virtually indestructable and have a very natural sound that is complementary to most live sound reinforcement systems. This mic is instrument friendly and any self-respecting sounc tech would be very familiar with its output levels and response characteristics. Most importantly, this mic would never make you sound "bad" unless the system was bad.
Having said that, there are condenser mics that would probably sound better with the right set up. They generally have a more extended frequency response and can add a nice "airy" quality to the sound. But they could also be too bright in some situations, and depending on its pickup pattern and how close you play to the mic, there could be some uneveness of sound quality and tone. You may also encounter increased problems with feedback.
You also mentioned a Pig-nose as a possible alternative as a stage amp. I would only use an electric guitar amp as a last resort - they are not designed to work with mics. An excellent alternative might be one of the many acoustic guitar amps available today - they are compact and self-contained, and most have a dedicated mic input with plenty of equalization and effect options. They reproduce full-range sound, and prices have become very reasonable in recent years.
Good luck, Mark
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