 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: chinaboy61
Date: 2007-03-12 00:02
Is the new R-13 Vintage really a big improvement over todays R-13? Is it worth is extra 500?
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Author: bahamutofskycon
Date: 2007-03-12 00:15
I love my R-13 Vintage A clarinet. It sounds great and feels/plays very similarly to my R-13 Bb clarinet.
I'm not sure how to answer your question though - it really just comes down to your personal preferences and the individual clarinets that you try (of any brand/model).
Use the search function to browse past posts - there have been some very detailed discussion on the differences (fact and opinion) between the regular and vintage R-13's.
Steve Ballas
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Author: Iacuras
Date: 2007-03-12 12:41
I agree with Steve. I have a Bb R13 Vintage that I absolutely love, i picked it out of a selection of 3 R13's. 2 R13 Prestige, 1 Tosca, 1 Selmer, and the vintage that i ended up buying. Make sure that when you are buying a new clarinet, especially one at the professional level, that you go to a good music store, and try out several. Even if your only looking for an R13, try out two or three, they will all play slightly differently. Also, make sure to have a reliable tech set it up. Brand new clarinets always need to be set up with some individual attentions. Good luck on your clarinet search, and keep us appraised of your decision.
Steve
"If a pretty poster and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you, you probably have a very easy job. The kind robots will be doing soon."
"If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly."
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-12 13:24
A local player recently bought two new Buffet Vintage clarinets, one Bb and one A. I tried both of them and they were great, but if they vary, then I probably only got to try good ones since he chose them specifically out of many. If $500 is not a huge difference for you then get the clarinet you prefer regardless. If you prefer the Vintage and you are short $500 then maybe you can wait until you can afford it instead of buying a clarinet you're not 100% happy with.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-03-12 15:03
I picked a Vintage in the key of A after a trial of several R13s (spaced over a few years). I did not get to try a different Vintage A, but the one I got was "preselected" (Grabner).
Interestingly, the Vintage model has coapted a version of the Galper register key.
Despite the elevated G# tone hole, I still get some water vapor there, but not as much as the standard.
I have no experience with a Vintage in Bb, having only tried/purchased the A-clar.
Certainly worth trying.
Have fun.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-03-12 16:50
My first Buffet, which I got new in 1961, was the original R-13 design. It had a great tone, which seemed to become an extension of your breath. Also, the comparatively small body diameter made it easy to handle. However, the register vent was9* large and low, which threw the registers out of tune with each other. To make the clarion low B and C usable, the low E and F had to be very flat. Every professional player took a new R-13 to Hans Moennig to get a reverse-bore barrel, tone hole undercutting and other tweaks to fix the intonation.
De mortuis nil nisi bonum, but Murray Snyder convinced me to let him ream out the "collapsed" bore of that horn, and he ruined it. Otherwise, I'd be playing it today.
My current Buffets are R-13s from the early 1970s, by which time Buffet had moved the register vent higher and enlarged the body. They're great orchestral instruments, and better in tune than the original design, but they lack the sweetness and tonal flexibility of the earlier model.
The Vintage models I've played feel and play like my 1961 R-13. If I needed new clarinets today, they would be one of my first choices.
There are several clones of the old-R-13, on which the makers claim to have fixed the intonation problems. These include the Selmer Odysee, the Yamaha CS and the Leblanc Infinite. (Leblanc has stopped making the Infinite, and they're available at low prices.) These are well worth trying along with the Vintage, if that's the kind of instrument you want.
Play as many instruments as you can get your hands on, using the criteria in the strings at http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=41632&t=41584 and http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=83516&t=83505
Ken Shaw
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2007-03-12 17:48
I heartily recommend the Buffet R13 Vintage clarinets. They are at a quality level with the Prestige and even the Tosca clarinets, at a much lower price tag.
If I were buying new clarinets today, I would buy the R13 Vintage.
I have one student who bought a Vintage. Everyone he encounters admires his horn. I love it when he comes over for lessons, as his tone is full and rich and his intonation is impeccable.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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Author: Buster Brown
Date: 2007-03-12 17:50
I've had one for 3 years now. I compared 3-R13's, 2-Vintages, 2-Festivals, 1-Prestige, 1-Tosca and 2-Selmer Signatures ,couple of LeBlancs. I liked the Vintage best. There was little difference between the two Vintages. Tone is very nice Intonation is"right-on". I also occassionally get some moisture accumulation in the G# key.
The only negative I have is the ring on the bottom of my bell appears to be Nickel as opposed to silver. The rest of the Vintage keys and rings are clearly silver. I wonder if all Vintages are like that or if mine is the only one.
Spring for the $500. You'll be glad you did. The difference was less than that 3 years ago. If you wait too long I expect the difference will increase.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-03-12 18:34
Buster said:
"Spring for the $500. You'll be glad you did. The difference was less than that 3 years ago. If you wait too long I expect the difference will increase."
Or worse. They could stop making them.
What Walter Grabner said about intonnation....At least on the A, I resort less to trick fingerings to make the sound better or keep in tune.
It comes with 2 barrels, both labelled with the V (in script) designation. One has a taper. The A comes with a deluxe pouchette case. Deluxe? Well, it is real leather, nicely fabricated.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Bob C
Date: 2007-03-13 22:43
I think you pay the extra if you find the right horn. I have an R-13 from 1964 and a Vintage model Bb. They are very different creatures. Both were picked from many and both are exceptional. The Vintage model seemingly has a little more resistance built in the bore. I prefer this horn for orchestral playing. It holds the sound together very well esp. at louder dynamics. I prefer the 1964 R-13 for chamber and solo as it has a lot of flexibilty and its easier to manipulate the tonal colors(my personal perception of course). Both horns have had to have some tweaking. I would recommend you purchase from someone who can make these fine adjustments for you, whichever model you purchase. Have fun in your quest!
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Author: Dano
Date: 2007-03-13 23:22
I have had my Vintage for a couple of years and when I picked it out, I picked this particular clarinet from the other 2 I had to try, only because the color of the wood was the most uniform of the 3 I tried. The Vintages played as well as I could expect without being tweaked. Better than the Leblancs, Selmers and Yamaha that I tried along with these Vintages. Strangely enough, as Buster Brown wrote, the ring on my bell seems to be nickle instead of silver also. I thought I just had an odd one. I get alot of compliments on my tone and color. It makes me feel that the Vintage has made my playing better than it would be on another horn. I use it for jazz mainly and it does have a flexability and ease of playing that I appreciate a lot. I think it is well worth an extra $500.
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