 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: John25
Date: 2007-03-10 20:37
Recent threads about the SK-mechanism and about boring holes in clarinets have prompted me to write.
I have always been interested in mechanisms. Many years ago I decided that the mechanism of the clarinet needed improving, principally to facilitate trills which were very difficult or impossible. I drew drawings of the mechanisms I had in mind and had the pieces made by a model railway engineer. They were then assembled and fitted on to my Bb and A clarinets by a technician. The instruments were originally Leblanc LL's with articulated G# and left-hand Ab/Eb key.
Photo 1 shows:
1. the extra trill-key for R1 between the side Bb and the C-trill key. This gives a perfect A-B natural trill.
2. the extra A-key for R1, for trilling the throat G#-A
3. the connection between the side Bb and the A-key, so that Bb can be obtained by pressing the side Bb key only (without the A key)
4. the ring for L3,which gives a perfect trill C#-D# by trilling L2.
The other photos show the SK-type mechanism which I had fitted. This meant having a new speaker hole with reduced diameter. The extra holes of course resulted in lowering the pitch of the instruments, especially the throat notes. I therefore had 1.5mm cut off the top joint and re-tuned them. These are the instruments I use every day.
Post Edited (2007-03-10 20:56)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-03-10 21:25
Very interesting, John 25, did you ever write a description of your additions, apply for patents or have discussions with cl makers? Chris P here on our BBoard is doing some key augmentation now, working for Howarth [I believe] and might be interested in your developments. I play little symphonic any more so have few if any trill problems, [did have some difficult tremelos tho in concert band music] . I also like the "mechanical challenges" of different keyworks, and have several examples of "cures" for our poor pinch Bb [throat]. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-10 21:39
It's good to see thoughtful designs becoming reality. I can see from the third picture where you've moved some holes around - shows you're another 'trial-and-error' person,which in my books is the best way to find out the most ideal solution.
Nice one, John.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2007-03-11 01:02
John25,
Pretty neat. I think I would have added a BIS key as well. I have initiated some posts on this topic. As a sax player, a BIS key and an articulated C#/G# would make the perfect clarinet for me.
HRL
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-11 01:13
... A left hand low Eb key (on the inside of the LH Ab/Eb lever) on full Boehms wouldn't go amiss either!
Selmer fitted it to their full Mazzeo systems and their basset clarinets, but it's a shame it never found it's way onto full Boehms as that would mean both LH and RH pinky keys are fully duplicated (except for the C#/G# touch, which is duplicated for RH finger 2 anyway).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-03-11 02:19
wow....... that's some amazing craftsmanship designing and bringing the keys to life, let alone making them work! I bet there's still room for some more keys to be put on..... heh heh.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-03-11 17:51
I think that the fewer holes in the body, the better. Steve Fox makes his instruments with a single hole for chalumeau Eb, connected to both the sliver key and the trill key. He says it's a noticeable improvement. At conventions, he brings along a clarinet on which he added perhaps a dozen keys, making it completely unplayable. I've heard a quarter-tone clarinet with extra keys for every interval, and it sounded horrible.
Also, most extra mechanisms (particularly the seventh ring for the left ring finger) create major adjustment problems, and even the alternate Ab/Eb lever for the left little finger is a problem, adding weight and getting in the way of little finger movement for quite a few players.
I've tried a "full Mazzeo" clarinet, with many, many extras, and it seemed clumsy. The Ab/Eb key, in particular, required the little finger of King Kong to operate. For more, see http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=160267&t=160145.
At the Clarinet Congress in London in 1984, representatives of the major makers held a panel discussion on mechanical improvements, which I remember vividly. My notes are at http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=160267&t=160145.
Professional players do amazingly well with the standard mechanism, which I think is why the improvements haven't caught on.
Ken Shaw
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Author: John25
Date: 2007-03-12 18:55
Chris P - Many thanks for giving me details of that interesting patent. I'll print it out and examine it.
Ken Shaw - I think you are being rather pessimistic about additional keys. I don't see weight as being of any relevance, as long as a few rods and cups are involved (the Mazzeo system may be a different matter). Reliability is most important, as you point out. I have hadoccasional trouble with the SK-type mechanism going out of alignment, but with all the other keys - nothing whatever in 20 years. The third ring for L3 causes no problem, and I use the LH Ab/Eb as much as the RH one. It has never caused the slightest problem. I understand that most clarinettists prefer to use the normal Boehm instrument, but remember that this instrument took many years to be accepted.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-03-13 15:43
Interesting patents, but ultimately unsatisfactory.
The first one closes the throat Ab key when the A key is opened. The hole for the A key will thus have to be enlarged. It's claimed to produce a more precise connection between throat G and A (because only one key opens) and prevent a G# blip when your index finger hits the Ab key before the A key. Frankly, I've never noticed this problem, and it introduces significant mechanical complication, including having the Ab key open by a weak spring, which is overpowered by the A key spring. I've had no end of trouble with counterbalancing springs, and I wouldn't willingly put any such mechanism on my instrument.
The second one, as far as I can tell without being able to read Chinese or technical French, is an adaptation of the bass clarinet double register mechanism to the soprano clarinet. Again, I've never noticed a problem in the lower clarion due to any lack of a separate register vent, and have no wish to import the nightmare complications where they're not needed.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-13 16:00
The Yamaha one could have promise on German/Oehler system clarinets where the throat A and G# are independant.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-14 17:47
All German, Oehler and the majority of non-Boehm system clarinets have independently acting throat A and G# keys as the throat A key doesn't lift the G# key with it as the arch on the G# cup arm is made to clear the A key completely.
Reform Boehms, German bore Boehms and other types of Boehms usually have them both linked with an adjusting screw or cork if they haven't got an adjusting screw fitted.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2007-03-14 23:29
My Oehler horn has the separate A and Ab keys. It bothered me at first, and I thought that something was missing, but the notes are in tune the way they are set up. The mechanism seems a bit "funny", but then again so does German grammar ("Throw Mama out the window a kiss.")
Selmer produced a soprano horn with additional register mechanism for the altissimo, but I've only seen the photos, never a horn. More complexity to be sure, but no end of full Conservatory oboes have been created by the likes of our Chris P that work well enough, so what are you gonna do?
On my full Boehms, the only "problem" that I have ever noted with any portion of the mechanism has been the slight interference with the adjustment screw arm on the fork Eb/Bb mechanism with my "ham hands". Never any problem with the Eb/Ab lever, nor the G# as mounted, and I hardly ever use the low Eb for an optional Bb. Other's experiences and mileage may differ...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-14 23:55
I just did the first half of 'The Music Man' earlier as the regular player couldn't get there in time (bari sax and clarinet), and a low Eb cropped up in this - just as well I use full Boehms!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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