 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2007-03-08 00:55
Ok so for about the past year I've been teaching clarinet to mostly 8-11 year olds. I recently took on some high school students and start teaching them tomorrow. All was well until I have a voice mail from the school saying that about half the students I'm taking on in the high school are sax players. I have never taught sax and have only played on one once, and that was just mucking around. I don't know the fingerings (I'm hoping the kids will know some!) and I'm stressing out. I went and bought some beginner books and fingering charts but I haven't got an instrument to get familiar with. I told the music director at the school and he told me to come along and see how I manage. If I don't feel I can manage it I'll probably give them up and get them to find another teacher. Any sax teachers here able to give me some tips for tomorrow?
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2007-03-08 01:14
Hi Nick,
I don't even know where to begin here except to tell you that you are not going to be able to fake it. I've played sax and clarinet for about 55 years (the rest of the woodwinds for almost that long) and you need to know the pedagogy and the unique problems of the saxophone.
While articulation and musicality are pretty much universal, not knowing your way around the instrument really puts you at a disadvantage. I'd get my hands on a sax ASAP and start practicing those books you got. Becoming even a passable teacher of the saxophone is going to take some time.
I fear this will not be a happy event in your musical career.
HRL
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2007-03-08 01:35
Aussie,
I forcast a much brighter outcome than Mr. Hank. I had a similar situation. I needed a job urgently, and took a similar position involving teaching both clarinet and saxophone. I hadn't played saxophone since i was 14, at which point i played on a very simple level. For this job I had a wide range of students at all levels.
I feel like after you hear your new students play, you will be able to help them in many ways, while you get started on sax. The Art of Saxophone Playing by Larry Teal is a nice text to help you.
I now occasionally perform on alto sax.
You can make this a positive outcome. I think you will be able to pick up sax quicker than you think. Its not that hard.
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Author: hans
Date: 2007-03-08 03:05
Aussie Nick,
I agree with Rod, that you will be able to pick up the sax quickly, but I agree also with Hank, that "not knowing your way around the instrument really puts you at a disadvantage", especially if the students already know how to play sax.
You need some sax lessons ASAP.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-03-08 03:57
Lessee,
You just need to be honest with the students --that you need some current work on the conical horn.
Fingering: like the clarion register of the clarinet, drop the register key to go down an octave. Exception: the "C" at the top of the register (all open) is actually C#, you need to put your left hand middle finger down for C-Nat.
Middle C: use the right pinky and reach for the long C-key like your clarinet.
There are myrid fingerings for the sax altissimo register, but there are also keys for most of the scale above high C, just have a look at the horn and see all the "side" keys that open successively higher along the body of the instrument. Count up in 1/2 steps.
Embochure, support, etc is similar --but its a drag to get down to the bottom notes of many saxes. You need to fiddle, and you need to be sure that the horn seals perfectly. Many student instruments do not.
You'll be OK.
Nows the chance to cut Rose out of the picture and go straight to the Ferling exercises!
Bob Phillips
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2007-03-08 05:32
While the above info has been mostly correct. There are some striking differences. A saxophone should not be played like a clarinet and vice versa. Doing so will cause a lot of heartache and problems. I'm not implying this was suggested earlier, just food for thought.
Two of the biggest problems are that the clarinet is designed to have air blown across the reed/mtpc and the saxophone is designed to have the air blown into the reed/mtpc and tonguing between the two involves a different motion due to the angle of the reed in the mouth and distance of the reed into the mouth. Tonguing is only similar in that the tongue strikes the reed at the tip. The placement of the strike on the tongue is greatly different between the two. Tonguing on saxophone should occur just beyond the tip of the tongue. Not actually at the tongue tip.
This will be a good starting point.
[urll]http://www.saxontheweb.net/Learning/
RodRubber's advice is excellent. Private lessons on any secondary instrument will only help. I would encourage letting the teacher know your situation.
Good luck! It's always an adventure when learning something foreign.
Playing sax is much easier than playing clarinet, in way too many ways! You'll pick up the basics rather quickly. Take time to learn the intricacies of it since the horn is purposely built out of tune and works in octaves.
-pat
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2007-03-08 11:59
Hi Everyone,
Please note that the suggestions and comments I made were based on Nick needing "some tips for tomorrow? He was most concerned about teaching.
HRL
Post Edited (2007-03-08 13:39)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-08 12:06
And DON'T tighten up your chops when playing up the top or you'll go very sharp indeed.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2007-03-08 12:14
Thanks all. I have been studying some fingerings in a beginner book (I've been told that these kids are in the beginner phase) and the rest of it so far seems straight foward. I will report back tomorrow after I have the lessons with them and see where exactly they are at. If I feel they are beyond a level at which I can help them, I will be honest and just tell the school. I have plenty of other clarinet students and don't really need these sax students, but I guess the experience would do me good.
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Author: D
Date: 2007-03-08 16:08
You could probably get a few weeks worth of lessons out of working on getting the kids to practice rhythms, make up tunes and write them down, make a simple harmony for a tune they already have in their books, playing duets or trios etc. That wouldn't involve a specialised knowledge of the sax or be a waste of the children's lessons. Depending on the financing behind these lessons I do think that whoever is paying (especially if it is the parents or students) should be aware that you are not a specialist sax teacher. If they are happy and you can get your hands on a working sax and private teacher pretty quick, then a couple of months of hard work would probably keep you far enough ahead of them that you would be alright for the rest of the academic year.
Be careful though. My first flute teacher was actually a very elderly clarinet player who used to double when desperate. The words 'total' and 'disaster' come no where near describing how unsuccessful that was. If you are having doubts after a few weeks it may be better to bow out gracefully as soon as a more appropriate teacher can be found. Doesn't stop you teaching the music side of things in the mean time though.
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2007-03-08 22:06
Thanks D I just had 2 sax students and have a couple more this afternoon. It wasn;t difficult at all. One of them was basically starting from scratch and the other was almost finished her beginner book. She can play a few pieces here and there. The music director guy made sure they were aware I'm not a sax speciailist, and he also let me borrow a school sax just to have a bit of a play on for as long as I need. Most of these kids are in the early stages and I don't really feel I need to get private lessons on sax myself as I have no desire to play it (or teach it too much!) I think they are aware that I'm only willing to teach them until they get to a grade 4 level roughly.
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Author: diz
Date: 2007-03-08 22:57
Aussie - just enjoy it. I played baritone sax in High School when I wasn't playing clarinet ... now that was a blast.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: samohan245
Date: 2007-03-08 23:06
i also play clarinet but i hope this will help you!!i have no clue where to begin but this will help u in your situation
www.lightandmatter.com
------
sam
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-09 00:20
Nick,
One thing you will find with sax is that before you know it, you'll be more fluent getting around playing in remote keys (eg. 6 flats or sharps) than you will on clarinet.
It's very useful and important as a doubling instrument and will definitely open up new horizons for you, and there's a multitude of playing styles to choose from - more on offer than there is for clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2007-03-09 07:24
Had the remainder of my sax students this afternoon. Was a piece of cake for the most part except for 1 student who has no concept of rhythm. In my spare time today I managed to play through the entire beginner book I am using with the kids. I'll be honest, I don't like the sax at all but I was surprised that I managed to make a pretty decent sound on it.
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Author: D
Date: 2007-03-09 15:53
I am not surprised you don't like it. Beginner books are normally pretty uninspiring, I wonder that anyone keeps playing at all.
Personally I don't like classical sax, although I do admittedly dislike lots of things which are normally popular. You might be like me and prefer to hear the sax as a primarily improvisational, jazz and swing instrument. Can't beat a baritone sax on the bottom line of 'Live and let die'! Makes the room shake.....
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2007-03-09 16:44
"I don't like the sax at all but I was surprised that I managed to make a pretty decent sound on it."
Hi,
Im not surprised, sax is easy. Any good clarinet player can become a sax player in about 6 weeks maximum.
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2007-03-10 06:39
I've just never been fussed on the sound of it. I can appreciate it when played well though, like any instrument.
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Author: 2E
Date: 2007-03-10 09:46
hey nick,
i double on sax and have a few sax playing friends in high places. ld be happy to lend u some trickier music if i see you around the con lol. any questions talk to barry bobart on a friday :p
cya mate,
toohey.
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2007-03-10 22:38
For what it's worth, I hope you learn to enjoy playing the sax. I think it's a fun instrument. It shouldn't take you too long to get reasonably proficient on it.
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