 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kkocman
Date: 2007-03-04 21:41
My clarinet teacher gave me one today...IT'S SO AWESOME! It is better than any wood reed I've ever played. Does everyone else think the same way? Or is this just a good plastic reed?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-03-04 22:02
I like mine. It doesn't live as a cane reed does (with all the ups and downs), but it's a damn good card up your sleeve. Don't leave your practice room without one.
--
Ben
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Author: kilo
Date: 2007-03-04 22:06
I love them. I just went from a regular 2.75 to a Quebec 3 and it is just perfect on my Grabner K13.
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Author: hans
Date: 2007-03-04 23:51
kkocman,
It's especially useful for a "doubler". I play alto sax and when we play the occasional piece with a clarinet part in it I don't have to worry about playing on a reed that dried out from not being played for the previous 20 minutes.
Even though wetting is obviously not necessary, I have found that the plastic reed seals better with the mouthpiece if the back of the reed is wet.
For my clarinet I have not noticed a difference in tone, but when I tried one on my sax the tone was not as good. It may not have been the right reed strength and I will try another sometime.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: ginny
Date: 2007-03-05 00:05
Neither my son nor I will use them. Wolf tones... stuff like that. I gave mine away.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-03-05 00:57
It lacks all the overtones and I can here miles away if someone is using a legere reed. Also it's harder to get your tone to vibrate naturally with it. It's like your tone is dead. It might be good when you are marching outside in a really dry weather but otherwise I don't like it. I keep 12 reeds in my Steuer leatherbound case on a piece of glass and I always have a reed for every occasion so it's pretty usless for me.
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Author: hans
Date: 2007-03-05 01:00
Re: "It's like your tone is dead.".... Artie Shaw said that he made some of his most successful recordings with plastic reeds.
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Author: kkocman
Date: 2007-03-05 01:27
I have a Quebec size 3...it destroys my Vandoren 56s. I still prefer a broken in thick blank Grand Concert 3.5 reed, but this comes in a close second because you don't have to deal with the breaking in process!
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-03-05 01:44
Hans I'm not Artie Shaw. I know many professionals who don't use plastic reeds at all. But that means nothing to me. What means to me is how it actually works for ME. And for me it's dead and lacks all the vibrant quality of a cane reed.
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Author: marcia
Date: 2007-03-05 05:07
I used one for an outdoor concert.....once. After about an hour of playing the sound just stopped. I thought it might be the instrument (cheap plastic strictly for outside use) but a cane reed brought the sound back. That was the first and last time I used Legere. I have heard of others having similar experience of the reed apparently just quitting after extended playing time.
Nothing beats the "pain of cane".
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Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-03-05 05:56
Not as responsive, not as colourful, lacking the overtones (sounds more monotonous)...
but still more playable than the odd green reeds that come once in a while...
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Author: donald
Date: 2007-03-05 06:09
among pro level players there are a variety of opinions....
my experience is that i will not use one in classical performance situations, BUT (and it's a very important BUT) 19 out of 20 of my 1st/2nd year students will sound considerably better on one, and a high number of intermediate level players will also have vastly improved tone. This is probably a comment on the quality of student reeds as much as an endorsement for the Legere but certainly indicates that there is room for this product on the shelf.
At the same time- the early prototypes of these reeds were stunning, once i used one when playing in master class with Charles Neidich and he was very impressed with the tone produced.
donald
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2007-03-05 11:52
Marcia,
There is information on the Legere web site -- I think it's in the manual in the download section of the site -- that says Legere reeds will soften to some degree after about of hour of heavy playing. It is recommended that Legere reeds be used in rotation and to change them after about an hour. It then goes on to say that after a period of rest a Legere reed will return to its original strength. I've noticed this softening effect and can hear a change in my sound but I've never had a Legere completely shut down on me. I've used the Quebec version of the Legere clarinet reed for several years -- in my experience it has a much better quality of tone than the regular Legere reed -- and get excellent results with it following Guy Legere's recommendation about changing reeds after about an hour.
Iceland Clarinet,
If you haven't tried the Quebec reed I highly recommend it. It has a beautiful warm, "ringing" quality of sound on my Grabner mouthpieces.
I spoke with Walter recently about Legere reeds and he told me how he noticed things about them that he didn't like when he played them in a concert hall. However, he then mentioned that Guy Legere came by his place with some new Legere reeds and he liked them much better. I asked Walter about the reeds (thinking they might be a new prototype) and he said they are the Quebec reed.
Hans,
There are two versions of the Legere saxophone reed -- the regular version and the Studio cut. The regular reed is based on Vandoren Traditional and the Studio is a thinner cut kind of like a V16 or ZZ. The Studio sounds too bright and buzzy for my taste. Also, it's much softer -- almost a full size softer -- than a regular Legere in the same strength. I use the regular Legere on tenor saxophone and it works fine for me. Its sound is dark, warm, full, and robust.....superb projection and response too. Determining the correct strength for you as a player and your particular equipment plays a big role in getting good results with Legere.
Also, it's critical to place the tip of the Legere reed on just the right place on the tip rail of your mouthpiece. I have the reed tip right against the end of the tip rail....not going over or being under. In this respect Legere is more picky than cane reeds. Just this one subtle thing can make a big difference in your sound and overall playing with Legere.
There are other quirks about Legere that I've discovered, I've mentioned them on other threads, that can make a significant difference in getting optimal results with them. Some mouthpiece facings work much better with Legere than others. This is also true with ligatures. I went through a trial & error period and sorted out the things that work better for me with Legere. For me, since I double so much, it was worth it. I'm now quite happy with Legere and the benefits I get from the reeds.
Roger
Post Edited (2007-03-05 11:59)
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Author: seafaris
Date: 2007-03-05 14:16
I have been playing the Legere reeds for almost 2 years. I do feel that a good well balanced cane reed has more of a ring to it on the higher notes, but they are not worth the hassle for an amateur like me. I squeak a lot less and have more confince in playing with the Legere. I rotate 3 reeds, play 2.75's and # 3's. I tried the Quebec and it does have a warmer tone, but I find with my set up the regular reed works best.
I like to play jazz and I prefer the brighter sound of the regular reed. I have experienced the closing off of the reed but it wasn't the reeds fault it was mine. Usually when I am a little tired and I try to tighten up on the mouthpiece it will happen. On my mouthpiece, a Fobes 4L it doesn't seem to like a really firm embouchure. That is for my playing style not anyone else's. These opinions are meant for the original question not to try and convince anyone that this is the holy grail of reeds. Heck no can agree on the best cane reeds let alone a plastic one. :-) The one thing I know for sure, I get a lot more practice in without worrying about reeds, because good or bad the Legere reeds are consistent and not subject to the weather.
....Jim
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Author: energia eolica
Date: 2007-03-05 15:39
First off, I do not play Legere reeds. I own a few and every now and then pull them out just out of curiousity. My reaction is always the same: I can produce a fairly tone with them, but they are not as flexible as a cane reed. The wording of "I can produce" is important, because I firmly believe that most people can produce the same sound on any instrument, barrel, mouthpiece, or reed. Some eqipment makes it easier for some, but the basic sound is the same.
Iceland, you say in your most recent post that what matters is what works for you. But you also said before that that you can hear if someone's using a Legere miles away. I don't believe that for one second. Maybe you found out they were playing one and it confirmed a thought you'd had, but you would not be successful judging whether someone was using a Legere if you didn't know the player. And even then, probably not. I've thought similar things in the past, but when put to the test we're wrong as often as we're right.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2007-03-05 15:50
These are a scintilla shy of the best cane reeds.
On a given day, they will outplay average reeds.
They don't really need adjustment to play their best - the QC is excellent.
I have yet to split, warp or mishandle one at a dire moment.
I save my Rigotti Golds for the days when I want that little extra - I don't go through many of those.
In short, these remove many of the handling issues that novice and intermediate players experience with natural cane.
The only thing I can hear from other players is heavy tonguing, poor tuning and lax counting - I'm mercifully immune to the vagaries of equipment.
Ultimately, you must try these for yourself.... if it makes practice easier, for longer periods, you will improve. If they get in your way - ditch 'em.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-03-05 16:44
energia I also tried the test on the legere homepage and I could tell it in 2-3 second which file was with cane and which was with legere. They also just didn't feel right for me it was like playing plastic clarinet instead of wooden one. Maybe the best word to use is they weren't as sensitiv as cane reed.
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Author: seafaris
Date: 2007-03-05 18:06
They do take getting use to, but if you feel that cane does the job there is really no reason to change. At first they might not be as flexible as the cane depending I guess on what you play.
I have recorded a few of my practices and was I surprised at what I thought that I sounded like, and what I actually sounded like recorded. This was with other instruments included and both my wife and I critiquing it. I also have very good equipment, mics, speakers etc. so I think it was a fair test. My wife is a very experienced player and loves cane reeds. She did agree that my sound was better with the Legere over the cane reeds I tried. I think 70% of playing is confidence in your equipment. If you think you play with more sensitivity with cane then you will. I think the same goes with ligatures, barrels etc. Everyone has in their head a certain sound they want or like, it is different for all of us.
...Jim
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Author: voggorb
Date: 2007-03-05 21:46
I tried both the regular cut and the Quebec recently, with my grabner k14 mouthpiece. I just couldn't get a decent sound at all! First I tried the 3.5 Quebec, which was way too hard, so I tried a few different strenghs, and 3 was the best for me, but still the sound was very awful. The reed wouldn't vibrate, and the tone was very airy, kind of like when you play a reed thats too stiff, or unbalanced. And even though I tried several reeds of same strength, they all sounded just as bad.
It was a great disapointment, since I have heard that the Legere reeds should work very well with the Grabner mouthpieces.
Oh I forgot to mention, I use V12 3.5 for my k14, which work very well (most of them needs balancing and a few scrapings here and there).
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2007-03-06 00:00
Curious! I'm using a #3 Quebec on my Grabner K14. From time-to-time I'll encounter a Legere Quebec reed that plays stuffy. But, happily, that's the exception. Overall I've had excellent results with the #3 Quebec reed.
A final thought..... It's been my experience that Legere reeds have a somewhat stiffer feeling than cane. When I first started trying Legere clarinet reeds it took me a couple of weeks of heavy shedding to reach the point of feeling comfortable with them. For me, it was worth the effort. I've been very happy with them since then.
Roger
Post Edited (2007-03-06 08:25)
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Author: energia eolica
Date: 2007-03-06 14:02
I do think you're right, Iceland, about them not being as sensitive. When I have critiqued the playing (not overall sound) of good players who have used them, I've found that the pallette of colors and dynamics was not as wide.
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Author: kkocman
Date: 2007-03-06 23:36
I agree that the dynamic range is not as wide, but it is wide enough. Maybe I'm just lazy, but I do not enjoy having to spend a lot of time breaking in reeds, so this is a miracle for me. When I play with a #3 Quebec on my M30 mouthpiece on an E-11 clarinet, the tone is marvelous. Maybe I just have a lucky combo, or something.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-07 08:21
"I have a Quebec size 3...it destroys my Vandoren 56s. I still prefer a broken in thick blank Grand Concert 3.5 reed, but this comes in a close second because you don't have to deal with the breaking in process!"
I don't deal with the breaking in process with cane reeds.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2007-03-07 20:33
Folks,
It's interesting, the wide range of responses to the Legere reeds. I think that what we're seeing here is more of a reaction to the unfamiliar, coupled with deep-seated prejudices, than any real assessement of the product.
"Wolf tone"? "Unplayable"? "The sound just stopped"? Not the fault of the Legere reed!
I, myself, bought a couple some years back, played them, and threw them in my junk drawer because they didn't play like cane (as I termed it, erroneously, "weren't as good as cane). Then I bought two Quebec cut reeds, and though they worked better for me, they still "weren't cane." Into the drawer they went.
However, come the Fall and Winter of '06-'07, with the wide temperature and humidity fluctuations that made dealing with cane iffy from one hour of the day to another, and after talking with Ted Lane and a few others a bit, I decided that the quick trials that I'd made weren't adequate. Not having anything to prepare for, I decided that I was going to play Legeres exclusively for the next month.
After a month of learning how to play them, I now use nothing else but the Quebec cut, and I have all my students, even the advanced, conservatory bound players, using them now. I'm very happy with the sound in the chalumeau and above, I'm okay with the slight attenuation of overtones in the lower register, and I can articulate as well with the Legeres now as I was ever able to do with cane.
Yes, the sound is a bit different than cane, but not inferior. Yes, Legeres require a different approach to articulation than cane, but that's learned quickly.
Expecting a 1:1 correspondence in every aspect of "reeding" between cane and the Legere's is unrealistic. They are different than each other, each superior in its own way.
Before anyone can hope to be objective about these reeds, they have to pay their dues by playing them exclusively for a few weeks or a month to become used to them and to learn how to play them. (That is, NOT switching back and forth between cane and Legeres.)
Complaining that they don't play exactly like cane reeds is a straw-man argument: they're NOT cane reeds!
Totally discounting them as trash and unplayable points to problems that aren't reed-related.
If you give them a chance, if you are persistent in sticking with them exclusively for a couple weeks, and if you are willing to put aside reed prejudices, you may find yourself switching.
If you give them that chance, but after spending some time with them and learning how to play them, you still prefer cane, stay with cane! But if you rely on hearsay, two-minute tryouts, or switching back and forth between cane and Legeres, and the purist in you refuses to accept that cane might not necessarily be the only material ever that will produce a superior reed, then you're not being fair to the reed.
Cheers.
Bruce
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Author: kilo
Date: 2007-03-07 22:34
I really doubt that Walt Grabner would be describing his superb mouthpieces as "Legere friendly" if the reeds were "trash".
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2007-03-07 23:04
My limited experience with Legere is restricted to the contrabass clarinet reeds. I think it's fair to say that nothing tops a perfect cane reed, but a "within-specs" Legere reeds works for me 99% of the time. No more hassle dealing with warpage that is a given with contrabass-sized cane reeds. In the context of these low frequency clarinets, in my books any cons associated with synthetic reeds are more than made up by their stability and user-friendliness.
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Author: susieray
Date: 2007-03-08 04:45
I keep two # 3 1/2 Quebec cut Legeres in my case all the time, and I use them when my other reeds seem to be acting up. Although I use cane reeds most of the time, I think the Legeres sound great, and I know they will ALWAYS play.
Sue ![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-08 07:07
Bruce - How many different Legere reeds of the same size do you think is enough to try? I assume they are not all 100% identical even with the same size. I don't have much experience with Legere. I've played a few minutes with a size 3 reed and a few hours maybe with a size 2.75 reed, both on bass clarinet. The size 3 was a little too hard. the 2.75 I'm not sure about. Neither gave me the sound I really wanted, even when I felt the strength of the 2.75 is ok. I ask because It could get expensive tryng to find the correct size, and even then you might not like it.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2007-03-08 15:34
If you haven't already done so, read about the Legere refund and return policy on their web site. It's quite good. If memory serves, you can get a full refund on the sales price of a Legere reed you don't like. Also, you can exchange a Legere reed for a new one in a different strength. I think this policy works for one reed. The refund/return policy is also stated on the insert information that comes in each Legere reed box.
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Author: sherman
Date: 2007-03-09 03:02
I tried Legere reeds for a solid four month period last year, using nothing else keeping an open mind and ear and all the rest of it, then wrote an essay or critique of them on my site, said essay being unfavorable and gives the reasons why.I felt that to be fair, one has to give them a chance.
I have found that this return policy differs from seller to seller and is frequently ignored. I was never ever to return or exchange one without having to get practically a signed slip from a doctor or my inlaws or someone not living in order to be refunded or exchanged. Of course, that is just my experience.
Also while I respect anyone who plays these or other synthetic reeds, I have found that the reeds, while they play, present a set of problems all of their own, comparable to cane. The ordinary legere is very brittle in quality and one would need to change one's mouthpiece in order to iffset that quality. The Quebec cut changes after two or three playings, and must be alternated carefully.
But so indeed do cane reeds.So why make the synthetic changes when you have already got problems one lives with for years from cane?
I've noticed that many use legere for Bass clarinet or for Eb, understood, but it is the basic clarinet reed that simply is a no brainer for me.
One thing further is that I have been told that when they first came out several years ago, they were much better, but that they have changed.
Can someone speak to that?
The synthetic idea seems to present one with the possibility of playing right out of the box, without any warmup and "away we go", all troubles gone.
For me this is far from the case, and still every now and again, I'll play on one , but there is no comfort or trust for me.
As an additional comment, may I suggest that thre reason mouthpiece people say their product if legere-friendly is for good old sales potential. They will play the way they do on any mouthpiece.
Sherman Friedland
Post Edited (2007-03-09 03:16)
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Author: ginny
Date: 2007-03-09 04:31
The wolftone may be due my technique but it's only a problem on Legere reeds!
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2007-03-09 11:45
Sherman,
Speaking from my personal experience, I ended up changing mouthpieces and ligatures in order to get the best possible results I could with Legere reeds. I discovered that Legere reeds work better on some mouthpiece facings than others. When I tried Legere reeds on some mouthpieces the results were absolutely terrible. But, on another mouthpiece....hooray.
Most of my performances are in doubling situations. In this context having a synthetic reed that I truly like is like a gift from God after years of picking up a clarinet or saxophone from the stand to find a dried out reed. I first discovered the potential of Legere reeds on clarinet. If I had not seen that potential early on, frankly, I would not have bothered with them and the Legere reeds would have gone into the trash can....following the path of every synthetic reed I tried over the years.
As I mentioned in a previous message, it took me several weeks to become comfortable with Legere reeds on clarinet. But, it took even LONGER on saxophone. I quickly discovered that Legere reeds (regular cut) sounded terrible on my primary mouthpiece. I then went through a period of trial & error to see if I could find a facing that gave me a better results with Legere. Long story short, I hit pay-dirt with the Ralph Morgan 6C saxophone mouthpiece. For whatever reason, this facing and mouthpiece design works in a stunningly beautiful way with a #2.5 regular Legere.
I experienced similar mouthpiece issues on bass clarinet. I had been using a Morgan D. Cane reeds work fine on it. But, with Legere response went to hell in a hand basket. I then tried a Walter Grabner LB mouthpiece with a #3 Legere and it was like finding the promised land. I was amazed at the differences the Grabner mouthpiece made.
After getting such good results with the Grabner/Legere match on bass I then HAD to try a Grabner mouthpiece on soprano clarinet. Walter suggested his K14 Kaspar-style piece. I tried it with a #3 Legere Quebec and was deeply impressed with the improvements it gave me over the previous mouthpiece I used with Legere.
Along with the trial & error I was having with mouthpieces, I also discovered that the ligatures I used quite happily with cane reeds were problematic with Legere. So, more experimentation with Ligatures! UGH..... But, again I hit pay-dirt -- this time with the Vandoren Klassik string ligature. Remarkable improvements!
Looking back, I shudder to think about all of the work I put into finding the best possible match between myself as a player, my equipment, and Legere reeds. I would NOT have done that for a different cane reed! However, I'm extremely happy with the results I'm getting on each of my instruments. I can honestly say that I'm happier now with these set ups than I was before. However, it's also clear to me that Legere reeds are not for everyone. If one is happy with cane reeds on their particular mouthpiece and equipment why change?
Best Regards, Roger
Post Edited (2007-03-09 11:52)
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Author: sherman
Date: 2007-03-09 18:04
Roger:
Many thanks for your interesting and thoughtful reply concerning Legere reeds. The clarity with which you speak and the intensity of your search is impressive. I didn't think there was that much to be gained, and it was perhaps my own problem, however I'm quite delighted that you are happier now.
Actually I have fought the battle of the dried- out reed for about 50 years, first never taking my reed off the mouthpiece while playing principal clarinet in a symphony orchestra. I would just wet it with running water each day until that weeks concert were over, then repeat the breaking in process, my ligature always being airtight as could with tape covering the holes, then finding plastic in the form of "Fibrecane" and using them for three months for every rehearsal and concert. They were about the equal of a legere, however I remember being more fatigued from them. Finally, I gave up when I told the first cellist and he told everyone else, and wow, I suddenly became a pariah, this being 1961.
I had also heard that George M Bundy of the Selmer company was working on a permanent silver reed for clarinet at the time of his death, which remained in my mind for years, even now, as it were.
So, when I was asked to try them(legere) and was sent a few of all different types, I did, and made a survey, as I've said, for four months.
To make a long story short, as you've said," they are not for everyone". Thanks again for your candor.
best regards, sherman
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2007-03-09 18:32
Clarnibass (Sorry. I can't recall your name from the listserver),
I've found that, as with cane reeds, Legeres too are a bit different reed-to-reed. All that I've had have been good, however, but just different than each other in some small aspect, such as hardness, or resonance in a certain register, but there's never been, for me, enough variation that I would reject any of the reeds I've owned.
Also, Legeres DO require some break-in; they will change a little after about (for me) a half hour of playing. They seem to get a bit softer, more responsive in tonguing, and more consistent in response through the registers. This is also true after break-in; they need to be "warmed up" a little--say a minute or two of playing--before they they play optimally.
For my soprano clarinets, I keep four, and I keep three for my bass clarinet. One of the soprano reeds is a little stronger than I'd like, so as soon as I play on this one for another half hour, if it's still too strong, I'll use the "boiling technique," which should work for you: All you do is just put them in boiling water for a minute, and they get about 1/4 strength softer. (I haven't tried boiling them longer to see what happens because I haven't needed to. I'd be interested to see if longer times in the water have a further softening effect...or if they ruin the reeds.)
Also, Ted Lane has, in the past, used Tom Ridenour's ATG system to adjust his Legeres, but in a conversation with him a few weeks ago, he told me that he doesn't bother adjusting them anymore, that the reeds are just fine "as is."
By the way, I use also use these on bass and contrabass clars and all the saxes. The only instrument I don't use them for yet is the eefer, which I play frequently, but I'm going to start working with Legeres on that instrument too, shortly.
One final thing: I'm not sure if Guy Legere's policy is still in force, but when I started using these, Guy would let you return reeds for exchange for another strength, as long as they were undamaged, in original packaging, etc. If the exchange policy is still in effect, it should assuage your worries about dumping lots of money for reeds that you won't use.
Hope this helps.
Bruce
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2007-03-09 18:45
Sherman,
Re: the older Legeres being better:
I pulled out the Quebec reeds that I bought when they were first introduced (four or five years ago?), and they play as well as the new ones I bought this month. Of course, I'm only talking about the Quebec-cut reeds, which is all I've used regularly. (I don't care for the standard cut at all, but that's another story.)
Bruce
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Author: redwine
Date: 2007-03-09 20:34
Hello,
I have tried Legere on occasion. They seem to be a perfect solution, especially for those of us in the military bands that march. I have found that they do not work for me. I've measured many mouthpieces of people who do use the reeds and my theory is that a close facing is required for the Legere reed. My mouthpiece is rather open (a 117). My theory is that the plastic "collapses" somewhat on the more open facings. Perhaps the close facing does not allow the material to "collapse" as detrimentally. That being said, I did not test the reeds for a great deal of time (as they did not work for a great deal of time for me) nor have I scientifically tested my "close facing" theory. I'd be interested in other mouthpiece makers opinions!
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2007-03-10 01:17
My soprano mpc. is a 1.04. A Grabner AW_PERS, and my Grabner eefer and bass cl. and Hite sax mouthpieces are fairly close, also.
Ben, though I don't know what you mean by "collapse," your pointing to the possible effects of different mouthpiece openings on the Legere's behavior may be the first jumping off point for a real analysis of why there's such a wide variance in experiences with Legere reeds.
Maybe there's a "bump" in the spring effect as the reed bends to open and close that isn't there when the amplitude of the open/close cycle is smaller.
I hope those who have had both good and bad experiences with them will add some data about their own tip openings. With enough data points, we might see at least a correlation. I'm particularly curious to read more, because I haven't heard any other reasonable explanations so far.
Bruce
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Author: susieray
Date: 2007-03-10 01:23
My mouthpieces are fairly close too (1.02) and Legere Quebec cut # 3 1/2
work fine for me. I am going to try it on a B45 and see what happens.
Sue
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Author: sherman
Date: 2007-03-10 01:24
Mr. Redwine:
Since I am playing on the Gennusa you made for me, I can tell you, that, while the synthetic does not collapse for me, in reed after reed, I cannot find one that compares to any of my good cane reeds with regard to sensitivity, eveness of timbre, articulation. However, they are louder, but that is not in my list of criteria for choice of reed.
I do find that the mouthpiece you made is the best I have had, quite similar to the original Gennusa I happened upon, and for my own purposes, I find changing from mouthpiece to mouthpiece, ligature etc is simply not worth a well-matched mouthpiece.
Sherman Friedland
Post Edited (2007-03-10 02:29)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-10 08:52
I found my Legere bass clarinet reed (size 2.75) and tried on too many mouthpieces. On some it worked fine, on some not so much. It was easy enough to hear the problem with the sound and sepearate that from the reed being too soft.
On my main mouthpiece (2.00mm tip) this size felt exactly correct. It felt a little strange, and the main difference was I wasn't able to play as many overtones as with my regular reeds. The sound was almost as good as with my regular reeds (just a slight difference) but was better than many other cane reeds. I think it is mostly a matter of the Legere shape, just like some cane reeds don't work as good as others for some players, the Legere might work or not.
How long should I expect a Legere reed to last? The price of Legere is about 2/3 of a box of 10 cane reeds, so let's say 6 or 7 reeds. Unless a Legere will outlast this consideribly, there is no advantage in them for me at all.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2007-03-10 13:30
Ben and Everyone,
I wish that Walter Grabner would join this conversation!
Anyway, in conversations I've had with Walter he told me it's his thinking that one gets better results with Legere reeds on a closer tip mouthpiece than an open one. Personally, I think there are a large number of variables involved between the legere reed, the player, the particular mouthpiece, the clarinet barrel, and the particular clarinet. Simplying looking at the tip opening may not be the smoking gun we're looking for.
I've played Legere Quebec reeds in #3 to #3.5 strengths on Grabner K11, K2e, K14; Gregory Smith Chedeville 1*; and Morgan RM10, RM15, RM28 mouthpieces. There may be some others I'm forgetting. The tip openings of these mouthpieces range from 1.00 mm to 1.28 mm. I've NEVER had a Legere Quebec reed shut down on me. Rather, it's been an issue of response and tonal quality.
For whatever reason I've had the worst results with Legere on Morgan clarinet mouthpieces. I'd really like to know why as I have a great deal of respect for Ralph Morgan; plus his mouthpieces work fine for me with cane reeds. As I've mentioned before, I'm deeply impressed with how well Legere Quebec reeds sound and perform on Walter Grabner's mouthpieces. I've also had no problems what-so-ever with Legere on Gregory Smith's Chedeville.
So, is this a matter of tip opening? I'm thinking that other factors may be more of an issue. A Morgan RM10 (1.10 mm) and a Grabner K14 (1.08 mm) are fairly close in their tip sizes. I don't have good measuring equipment. However, in doing the best I can, it appears to me that the Grabner K14 has a shorter facing curve than the Morgan RM10. In addition, the Grabner mouthpiece has thicker side and tip rails than the Morgan. Of course, there are also significant differences in their chamber and baffle designs. Never the less, I cannot help but wonder if the shorter facing curve and thicker rails on the Grabner mouthpieces are major factors in having better results with Legere reeds.
I should also mention that I feel more comfortable with Legere Quebec reeds on the Grabner K14 than his K11 or the Gregory Smith Chedeville. It's my thinking that the K14 is a better match than the K11 for the larger bore (around .580) of my vintage Couesnon Monopole clarinet. Whereas, on a clarinet with a smaller bore I get fine results with the K11 and the Gregory Smith. Like I said above, many variables!
On the other hand, with Legere saxophone reeds I found that I get better results with a more open tip...but other factors are also involved. My primary mouthpiece on my 1934 Buescher New Aristocrat had been a Morgan 3C. I tried Legere reeds in various strengths on the 3C but the results were terrible. Simply put, I could not get ANY Legere reed to work well for me on that mouthpiece. I then tried progressively more open facings with Morgan 4L, 5L, and 6L mouthpieces. Of these three facings I had the best results with the 6L. I was in the ball park! However, I was not completely happy with my sound on the 6L. Finally, Ralph Morgan made a special order 6C (large chamber classical) mouthpiece for me and that did the trick. Legere reeds work BEAUTIFULLY on the 6C. I'm still trying to figure out WHY! The 6C and 6L have the same tip opening. Both are large chamber mouthpieces....with the 6C having a somewhat larger chamber. The 6C has less baffle. Side and tip rails are the same. I'm thinking that there MAY be a subtle difference in the facing curve. But, I haven't confirmed that with Ralph. The only thing I know for sure is Legere reeds were terrible on the 3C and perform completely to my satisfaction on the 6C. One of life's mysteries I guess! ha ha ha
Hope this helps in some way.
PS, The only problem I'm having with Legere reeds now is from time-to-time I'll get one that I'd describe as "stuffy". I've tried making adjustments with the ATG but that did not help. So, I simply put the reed aside and tried another one. Normally, the next reed plays fine. One of these days I'll send one of the stuffy reeds to Guy and see what he can tell me about it. Like Bruce, I very much prefer the Quebec to the regular cut Legere soprano clarinet reed. For whatever reason, the thicker cut of the Quebec really does it for me.
Best Regards, Roger
Post Edited (2007-03-10 15:13)
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Author: redwine
Date: 2007-03-10 21:56
Hello,
Having said that I didn't care for the Legere reeds too much, I must say that I've recently developed an interest in low clarinets, after playing my entire career mainly on e-flat and b-flat clarinet. I've purchased a bass, an alto clarinet, and a contra bass within the last month. I just ordered a range of the Legere's to test on these instruments. When they arrive, I'll let you know what I think.
Ben
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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