 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: spiderbelle
Date: 2007-03-02 11:21
I feel sick. Really.
Just had a Ton Kooiman Maestro TR installed on my clarinet . . . drove a loooong way and back to take it to a very highly regarded repair tech . . . long story short, I realized after I got home that the repair tech drilled all the way through the bore when drilling holes for the screws (the tech pierced the bore once). I then realized that the mounting plate was installed approx. 7-8mm too low, and therefore the lowest screw was in a spot with a thinner wall than intended, and now there is a hole there.
After spending about an hour bawling my eyes out, I am starting to come to my senses. Help me. Can this be fixed? What should I do? I drove a really long way to this tech (over 100 mi. each way) precisely because I was terrified of having someone drill into my clarinet . . . but because my wrist and hand pain has become so bad, I felt like I had to do something drastic like install an ergonomic TR.
Seriously, I have only stopped crying because my eyes dried up. Ever since I got this clarinet 10 years ago, I've treated it like it's my firstborn. Every time I think about the hole being drilled through it, I feel physically ill.
Please help . . . I don't know what to do, I don't know if my clarinet is ruined, I don't know how to approach this with the tech . . . . I am truly at a loss.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-03-02 11:33
Holes can be easily repaired with grenedilla sawdust and super glue......by a QUALIFIED tech. The guy who misfired on your horn didn't read the instructions with the thumbrest (amongst other things).
Perhaps speak to someone at the shop where this occurred. There may be another tech, apologies, some sort of gesture to make up for an obvious error.
Don't fret, it is fixable.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: kilo
Date: 2007-03-02 11:36
That is a sad tale. I think you have to talk to the tech first and if you don't feel up to it get a knowledgeable friend to do it for you. The tech should not have bored a hole completely through your clarinet. Now, as a woodworker -- but not an instrument maker -- I do know that mistakes and accidents happen, and the great thing about wood is that they can often be repaired. Good luck and keep us informed.
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Author: Kruzi
Date: 2007-03-02 11:58
Hello!
Shame what he did to your clarinet!If I was you, I would not entrust my instrument to this repair tech a second time, who knows how he`ll harm it the next time?
But don`t worry.Your clarinet isn`t fully ruined. It can be fixed like a wood crack by filling the holes with a mixture of ebony wood dust and superglue and sanding and polishing the surface. A competent repair tech should be able to fix this in a way that the repairs are only visible if you look close on the instrument. And it should be playing afterwards like it always did.
Regarding your wrist and hand problems - have you ever considered using a neck strap with the clarinet? It takes off the instrument`s weight from your right hand and makes holding and playing a lot more comfortable.
Greetings,
Kruzi
Take what you`ve got and make the best of it!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-03-02 13:46
My condolences for your trauma. I agree you should take it back to the tech and talk to him in person, but you should also talk to the manager of the facility and let him/her know what is going on for your protection on this issue. If this is a legitimate place of business (and it must be or you wouldn't have chosen it to begin with) this will be taken care of. As mentioned above, it is possible to fill a hole and the clarinet will work just fine, but it must be done correctly. It is their responsibility to make this right.
Also, you say you're having wrist problems, I suggest that you try to learn to use a neck strap. You could use it in addition to the improved thumb rest. This will take the weight off your thumb and wrist. And, it's nothing to be ashamed of; I saw a professional using one in a concert the other day. No doubt he was also having some wrist problems.
This board is a great place to cry over tragedies. I know first hand. So, please let us know how this turns out. I once dropped a classic Kaspar Cicero 13 mouthpiece and broke it. I had paid around $500.00 for it just a week or two before dropping it and I was sick--just like you mention. I didn't think there was anything at all that could be done about it, but wanted a shoulder to cry on. I got lots and lots of sympathy and Brad Behn offered to repair it (yes, it was repaired) and it was better than new!
You just never know until you cry!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-02 14:11
ALL repairers should use a drill with a depth stop when drilling screw holes into the body - to drill right through to the bore is unforgivable and is total ineptitude on their part.
I use a 1.6mm drill mounted in a steel so there's a shoulder that stops against the surface, so the drill only goes to a depth of 5mm maximum - that's around 3/4 the depth of the joint wall as the wall thickness is around 7-8 mm.
And the fact they mounted the thumbrest too low makes me wonder how they're still in business.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2007-03-02 14:14)
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Author: spiderbelle
Date: 2007-03-02 14:19
Thank you all for your kind words. I am still in a state of shock, I haven't even been able to sleep all night. Yes, I am THAT neurotic about my clarinet . . . but then again, you all understand. (My husband, on the other hand - a non-musician, tried to console me by saying, "But they had to drill it so they could get the screws in! No harm done!" which made me look at him in complete disbelief and just wail even louder.)
By the way, I've been using a neck strap for the past 7-8 years. It's just not doing enough. It definitely helps, but my thumb and fingers still go numb, my wrist aches, and my hand cramps up. (And this is with what I consider to be minimal playing -- under 10 hours a week.) I've also tried playing with my bell resting on my knees - this works to some degree, but again, not enough to avoid pain. It's getting to the point where I can hardly take notes in classes or type for prolonged periods (necessary things to do when you're a grad student).
Having tried neck straps, as well as simply taking off my TR and resetting it upside-down to raise the level a bit . . . THAT'S why I decided to spend $165 on a fancy high-tech TR.
And Brenda, that is a truly horrific story. I think I may have passed out if I were you. I've dropped (and destroyed) two mouthpieces, but both of those instances were in high school (within the same school year, no less), and those mouthpieces were worth maybe around $100 apiece. I can't even begin to imagine what you went through.
Post Edited (2007-03-02 14:24)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-02 15:17
Have you considered the Quodlibet FHRED support? I've recommended these and have heard good things from people that use them, even though I don't use them myself I can see they're far more beneficial than a sling.
And no, I'm not affiliated with Quodlibet or an endorsee of the FHRED support - I think they're a much better solution than slings as they will relieve the strain on the right arm considerably.
But you may need a thumbrest with a ring fitted to use them, the ring has to be inline with the clarinet bore, not horizontally (perpendicular) mounted.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: spiderbelle
Date: 2007-03-02 15:25
I have thought about also trying the FHRED support. Maybe I will give that a shot too. My concern was that if I have to play standing up for some reason, I don't think I'd be able to use it, and in that case, a special TR would be a better choice . . . but I may see if I could use both the TK TR and the FHRED support in tandem. I will have to check on the setup for the FHRED to see if I'll need to have a ring soldered onto my TR or something.
What's next? I might have to hire engineers to construct collapsable scaffolding around me every time I play. Or maybe I can hang supports from the ceiling. Kidding, kidding . . . I'm making fun of myself here. I already look gimpy enough with the big carpal tunnel wrist brace and the neckstrap. :-) Ah, I have finally cracked a smile after a long night of no sleep. That's encouraging. Seriously though, I really hate it when people act like I'm a weakling for having wrist and hand problems from the clarinet. After all, "it's not that heavy." Grrr.
(Please excuse rambling . . . remember, it's been a tough, sleepless night and my brain is fried.)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-02 15:57
You can get a belt attachment for the FHRED to rest against, or improvise something that will do the same thing so you can use it while standing.
I have seen some pretty elaborate designs in clarinet supports that look like a head brace, but supported on the shoulders. I'm sure they're beneficial, but they do make the player look like they're in traction.
The FHRED is simple in it's design, and effective - and that's what it needs to be.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: D
Date: 2007-03-02 15:57
I too think you need to go back to the same shop having spoken to the manager to arrange a time to go when he/she is there too see what has been done.
Also, I think you should inspect and play the instrument before leaving the shop too and make sure that any repair done is acoustically sound as well as looking like the problem is fixed.
I think that unless there is a hyper good excuse for the poor work, then the shop should also cough up for the cost of petrol on the 2nd journey. Don't know how you would go about forcing them to do this though.
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Author: donald
Date: 2007-03-02 16:09
to drill a hole into the bore of the clarinet is completely unforgivable.
it is not the end of the world in terms of the playing life of the clarinet as it can be repaired,
but it does seriously compromise the resale value of your horn, and even if this is not an issue, the bottom line is that you had a "perfect" horn that is now seriously compromised because of this repair technicians actions.
i'd be hopping mad, spitting tacks
and yes, i'm certain i too would have a sleepless night with tears.
keep playing the good tunes
donald
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-02 16:22
It's easy enough to fill a hole that's been drilled through to the bore, but the hardest part is finishing it on the inside, and if the grain has been splintered where the drill emerged then it's more difficult to get it all flattened out so it can't be seen. Also if the bore has been oiled recently before this act of stupidity took place, the glue may not take to the wood in the bore.
It can be done and done well, and it takes a lot of time and patience to do it well, but it's still annoying that it happened to begin with.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-03-02 16:27
I just checked the bore of mine and it's full of holes! ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
Seriously - a properly repaired hole just can't be seen when looking through the bore (and on the outside there's a screw in). Theoretically your horn can have other filled holes and you wouldn't even know let alone see them.
(I don't agree with Donald's "seriously compromised" view - this accident is annoying and unnecessary, but an ugly ding or scratch on the outside would bother me far more)
--
Ben
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Author: Elkwoman46
Date: 2007-03-02 17:23
Dear Spiderbelle, after an absense from the world of clarinets, it was only recently that I replaced my clarinet, and wow, did I ever get an upgrade for less than I paid for the other one. Nonetheless, I would be sick if something happened to my new baby! (I got a really, really good deal on a 1974 Normandy 4.) Anyway, from my perspective, I would seriously cringe on the affect of another "tone" hole put into my clarinet...ouch. That would scare me silly because of the complications that this hole might cause in intonation or sound or just the variance that it might have caused, but even in the sense, to me if one did a partial drill, it could still cause some variance because it took away some of the quality or density of the wood; who is to say that a chambered/hollowed out electric guitar would sound better than a solid body? It could.
Therefore, I think you deserve a "back up clarinet"; go shopping.
There is one thing that I have seen in my life, when I trust God, there is always something so much better around the corner, and in His timing.
Check it out, and see what turns up for just YOU!
I say with with heart felt sympathy for your pain. I am so sorry for your difficult situation.
And so, the way I see it, if you have two clarinets, long term you'll have two friends to play with.
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Author: donald
Date: 2007-03-02 20:56
hey Ben, no offense, but are you kidding? Having owned and sold 2 very fine pro horns with professionally repaired cracks (both with serious gigs behind them along the lines of "used to win an international competition")...
i can assure you that i couldn't ask the price that the instruments were really worth, AND had to spend hours explaining the work that had been done and enduring raised eyebrows etc
that was just for ordinary hairline cracks.
i can't imagine trying to sell a clarinet that had had a hole drilled through to the bore and being able to ask a stiff price- regardless of how well the instrument played.
keep playing the good tunes
donald
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-03-02 21:32
Donald,
I think a repaired crack is - in the eye of the buyer - a tad different than a repaired thumbrest screw hole. (After all, when you have your thumbrest moved up or down, the tech has to fill the old holes too, without causing an uproar here). Plus, the word "crack" raises always the "will it do that again?" question about inherent tensions and whatnot.
I think the devaluation of an item is somehow proportional to the dimension of the (fixed) damage.
--
Ben
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Author: Morrie Backun
Date: 2007-03-02 21:39
Hello,
I am so sorry to hear of your situation. It always upsets me when I encounter preventable mistakes.
Here is an offer that I hope will help you.
Even though my shop did not work on your instrument, I will repair the damage caused by drilling into the bore, at no cost, and move the thumb rest to a location that works for you. Hopefully that will at least stop the tears and make you feel a bit better.
Feel free to call or email me directly and we can work out shipping arrangements and timing, if you like.
Morrie Backun
morrie@backunmusical.com
6042055770 extension 101
www.backunmusical.com
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-03-02 21:40
> *** "I too think you need to go back to the same shop having spoken to the manager to arrange a time to go when he/she is there too see what has been done". *** <
That is amazing! Why someone wants to go back to fix the problem. This type of mistake not suppose to happen in the first place. This guy is an idiot. Keep your clarinet away from him.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-03-02 23:44
spiderbelle, did you see Morrie's offer? You gotta take him up on that. He's a clarinet GURU! It's an honor that he would offer to do something so nice for you. He can work wonders on clarinets. I've gotten a few things from him and hope to entrust my beloved Leblanc Symphonie VII to him soon for an overhaul.
By the way, I had a similar offer from Brad Behn when my mouthpiece broke. So, it pays to read and contribute to the board. I also had a beautiful gift sent to me from Allan Segal.
No more tears. Grin and send it to MORRIE! Let us know the results.
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Author: marcia
Date: 2007-03-02 23:57
I would second the reccomendation to take Morrie's offer. He is a WIZARD when it comes to instrument repairs.
Marcia
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Author: spiderbelle
Date: 2007-03-03 00:09
Oh my goodness. I am completely overwhelmed by the outpouring of sympathy and encouragement, and the generosity of Morrie Backun to fix the damage done. I am almost speechless. (Not close enough to speechless to stop typing, however.) Wow. I have come to the board archives and looked up things here and there for reference, and I've occasionally posted, but this experience of genuine concern and community has completely taken me by surprise. I am really stunned. All I expected to hear was maybe a post or two about whether my clarinet was beyond repair or not. You all are wonderful. This morning, I was crying so hard that I almost threw up (too much information, I know), and now I feel so humbled and grateful for people -- who don't even know me -- giving me such incredible support after my worst clarinet nightmare came true, and for helping me to realize that it will be OK, and that my most treasured possession will be fixable.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, Morrie, for your completely selfless offer -- and I will take you up on that! Thank you to the techs who offered consolation and advice. Thank you fellow players who are simply trying to lend some comfort. Thank you, everyone!
Gosh, I feel like I'm giving a speech at the Oscars. I am just so touched by everyone's sincere interest in helping me.
Cue the orchestra! I need to be cut off. ;-)
I'm going straight to the donation page and making a contribution. This board is truly invaluable. You'll see more of me around here now!!!!
Mark C., here is your best commercial yet for why it is important to support this message board!!!!
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Author: donald
Date: 2007-03-03 00:27
YAY for Mr Backun
hey Ben- good points, but it's not me you have to convince, it's potential buyers who don't know as much about the clarinet as you and i
keep playing the good tunes
d
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Author: spiderbelle
Date: 2007-03-03 00:43
By the way, I am never ever selling my clarinet. I appreciate the debate over the resale value, that's useful for insurance purposes, but this clarinet and I are lifelong partners (provided it doesn't ever spontaneously morph into sawdust or burst into flames or something).
My clarinet was handpicked for me by Kyle and Jim Pyne out of a stash of a couple dozen of Tim Clark's clarinets, and it is an incredible R-13. I've had more than a few people offer to buy it from me, people who play clarinet for a living, but it's mine forever. :-P
It was also my present for my 17th birthday, so there's some emotional ties, too (obviously, or else I wouldn't have gone berzerk this morning).
Here's to nice people and fellow clarineters! Cheers!
:-)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-03 00:59
Put a pencil line or a sticker to mark the point where your thumb is most comfortable, so it serves as a guide when you have the thumbrest relocated in a better position.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-03-03 02:04
Since it originally came from Tim Clark, perhaps that is where you should go to get it fixed. He just did some very impressive work on some instruments for me. You also get the bonus of having his dog sing for you.
(He no longer sells horns, by the way)
Or take Morrie up on his offer.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2007-03-03 02:14)
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Author: spiderbelle
Date: 2007-03-03 02:13
The clarinets from Tim Clark had not been worked on by him, they were R-13s in his stock that he had not yet 'tinkered' with. :-) He just supplied a bunch of already-determined-to-be-excellent clarinets for my teachers to choose from.
I didn't know that he doesn't sell clarinets anymore! I really, really love my horn. Couldn't ask for anything better . . . unless it was a clarinet just like mine but without the 'extra tone hole.' ;-)
See, I'm feeling much better . . . I can joke about it now!
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Author: spiderbelle
Date: 2007-03-03 04:30
I would say that it couldn't be much worse . . . but I'm afraid that I'd jinx myself. :-)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-03-03 06:53
after going through these kind of problems one too many times I decided to do the repair myself. as long as it took in the begining and as bad as it was, I have never been able to do damage. those people should not only give you the money back, but they should pay for it to be fixed at anyplace you choose- no matter the price.
I was always surprised when I took things back that weren't done right; they always say, 'come back tomorrow and it will be fixed- no charge'.
I always ask, 'do you really want me to leave my instrument here so you people can break it a SECOND time?'
The best treatment is to tell us all the store so that we can all avoid it in the future.
BTW- I had bad wrist problems too, and the Kooiman does help everything if installed correctly.
good luck
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Author: Ed
Date: 2007-03-03 11:55
What a kind and generous offer from Morrie. He certainly has the knowledge and tools to make this right. What a prince of a guy! ![[up]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley24.gif)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2007-03-04 07:04
Mr. Backun is a good man!
When I had tendonitis in my right arm about 10 years ago, I practiced a lot with a cardboard box holding up the bell and held it with my knees during rehearsals. Neck straps did not work for me with the soprano clarinet.
Yet, I could never bring myself to have anyone drill holes in my clarinet for any reason, ever.
After a few weeks of weight lifting exercises, the tendonitis went away for good! It also helped while playing to try to rotate the right wrist in a counterclockwise direction when viewed from the arm.
Good luck!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-03-05 13:56
But Donald, the repair should be totally invisible! Unless perhaps you are in the habit of inspecting with an endoscope. We are talking about a filled 1.4 mm diameter hole here, with a screw filling most of it.
Therefore no compromised resale.
Quite different even from the filled holes left by a moved thumb rest.
I think, from what I have encountered, that filling of holes at factory level - possibly borer holes, and chips from machining - is far more common than we might imagine.
Post Edited (2007-03-05 13:58)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-05 15:22
"I think, from what I have encountered, that filling of holes at factory level - possibly borer holes, and chips from machining - is far more common than we might imagine."
You should see my Buffet Prestige bass!
I'm rebuilding an old Howarth S5 cor anglais that was run over by a car, and although I have left some of the shallower dents on the body joints I have milled out and filled the larger ones. The smaller ones are easy enough to fill or iron out with a hot piece of steel, then polished up afterwards.
And I can definitely vouch that there is plenty of filling going on during the manufacturing process (and has been going on for aeons) - wood will have natural flaws and larvae holes, but the joints are usually lined up in a manner that most imperfections will be dealt with during tonehole and bedplace cutting (and imperfections in toneholes and bedplaces are easy enough to sort out through filling and recutting - yep, good ol' SUPERGLUE and wood dust does the trick!). Though the ones that aren't 'removed' in this manner are usually filled.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-03-05 15:50
> SUPERGLUE and wood dust
Reminds me of Greenline. Don't ask me why.
--
Ben
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Author: spiderbelle
Date: 2007-03-05 16:19
"Reminds me of Greenline."
You're telling me. ;-)
Also, just to be clear, the hole will have to be completely filled -- there will be no "screw filling most of it." The entire mounting plate for the TR was placed too low, and this hole was for the bottom screw. Therefore, everything needs to be moved up.
My husband has been shocked by fellow clarinetists' reactions to this -- he really thought I was nuts. All of my school friends have been horrified. It's nice to have my agony validated, although I am pleased that it can be fixed good as new.
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Author: donald
Date: 2007-03-05 18:46
hello there Gordon- yep, no compromised resale value IF you are prepared to "lie by omission"... now, just imagine what people will think if after they've owned a clarinet for two years they discover that it had a hole drilled into it, and you had withheld this information at the time of sale.
Of course, by then they know that it's a good clarinet, and even if they didn't they'd have no legal grounds for complaint, but my reputation and karma is worth more than a few (potential) extra hundred dollars.
(this next bit is not a personal attack on anyone)
i guess that despite growing up surrounded by drug taking beatnik poets, "alternative lifestylers" and dreadlocked surfers i live by principles that include uncompromised honesty. "Go donald", eh?
donald
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-03-05 19:04
donald wrote:
> hello there Gordon- yep, no compromised resale value IF you
> are prepared to "lie by omission"... now, just imagine what
> people will think if after they've owned a clarinet for two
> years they discover that it had a hole drilled into it, and you
> had withheld this information at the time of sale.
Wow. What if I buy a clarinet off some store and (don't ask me how) I find out that this very same clarinet I paid the new price for has been "out" several times and has always been rejected and restocked.
> Of course, by then they know that it's a good clarinet, and
> even if they didn't they'd have no legal grounds for complaint,
> but my reputation and karma is worth more than a few
> (potential) extra hundred dollars.
No one forbids you to tell the customer "see, there are three filled holes where the previous owner had the thumb rest moved." The customer can inspect the ex holes and can decide whether the instrument was in good hands.
Would you be able to tell your customer how many times the instrument has been left on its stand for a week without swabbing? How many times it has been dropped? I mean, there is unhandled wear, and there are properly carried-out repairs. The former gives me a much bigger handle to cut the price. Because the latter tells me the owner invested something so there is an inherent value in that instrument.
> i guess that despite growing up surrounded by drug taking
> beatnik poets, "alternative lifestylers" and dreadlocked
> surfers i live by principles that include uncompromised
> honesty. "Go donald", eh?
Ewww. How perfectly old-fashioned of you. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-03-05 20:01
Donald, methinks you turn grey into black and white.
Although I aim for perfection in everything I do, there are price restraints, time restraints, and the imperfection that is inherent that any person or machine does. So although I regard my repair work as of a high standard, there is probably little that I (or anybody else) does, that could be regarded as perfect. Likewise, any item which you buy.
I also happen to be acutely aware of how any job could be made more perfect, although this could well be tilting at windmills.
My job sheets often already almost fill an A5 page of detail, covering only the major parts of the servicing. If I were indulge in absolutely full disclosure as you describe, and detail every imperfection of workmanship that does not affect the instrument's performance, and is not apparent with a very thorough search, or even the special intimacy that a technician has with an instrument, then my job sheets would have to to be many pages long, and customers who make an emotional issue of this detail would occupy a huge amount of time as I explain items in greater detail as required. I would have to put up my prices HUGELY!
A clarinet is at best, an imperfect piece of timber, with imperfect dimensional specs, carrying an imperfect mechanism and ridiculously imperfect soft materials. The manufacturer and the technician make these imperfections as unintrusive as possible.
I suppose this discussion centres on whether you regard a tiny hole that has been filled as a serious blemish, or the sort of irrelevant thing that most players are living with already without being aware of it. It is not quite the same as declaring a leaky-house syndrome! (Current serious issue in NZ)
If I damage a pad, break a spring, bend a key or steel, damage a cork, etc while working on your instrument, I just correct it, without it becoming a major disclosable item forever held against the instrument.
What is wrong here is that the technician did not correct his botch-up. A technician is only as good as his ability to recognise and deal with things that don't go according to plan. That includes human errors. You will not find a technician who makes no human error.
Another way to look at this is how you, the professional player, deals with the imperfections that you notice while you perform. People have PAID top hear you. Do you give a report to the audience after the performance, of all the imperfections in your playing that they probably did not notice. No! That is counter-productive.
Time for some poetry in this thread?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-03-05 20:16
There was a bit of devil's advocate in my last post.
Perhaps I should add that I also identify with the personal integrity that Donald describes. It is the reason that I do not sell instruments. If I told a prospective buyer all that I thought they OUGHT to know about the faults in the new instrument, there would probably be no sale; the buyer would go elsewhere for the illusion of non-disclosure. If I correct all those faults before sale, then the instrument would not have a competitive price, or my profit would be seriously eroded.
Imagine a dealer trying to sell a new Selmer sax, while at the same time telling the customer that the tone holes are not level, the pads seal poorly, The linkage corks will crush to mess up any adjustment, there are some awful engineering concepts, and within a couple of years, felts are likely to fall off, resonators are likely to rust, and springs are likely to rust, all of which would cost $1000 plus to correct.
I'd be out of business. So for personal integrity reasons, I don't sell instruments.
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-03-05 20:39
Aghast at a hole there be;
Must fix it for none to see.
But if techie don't show it,
Let caveat emptor fit,
To belie his honesty!
Eu
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Author: donald
Date: 2007-03-06 18:41
not many clarinets have holes accidentally drilled through into the bore...
the uniqueness (sp?) of this "imperfection" (yes, i'm aware that a good repair will eliminate any impact on playability) makes it worthy of mention. SURELY
but anyways, SB is getting her Clarinet fixed, and she just wants to keep it forever, so this is all moot.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-03-07 00:13
No manufacture ever mentioned the zillions of imperfections, some of them actually quite serious.
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Author: donald
Date: 2007-03-07 05:27
.... and that is exactly why you lack respect for their instruments and business practise. Are you really sure i'm going to be happy about putting myself in the same company?
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-03-07 10:23
All this over a hole in a wood clarinet....that can be fixed! Good luck Morrie.
Bob Draznik
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-03-07 14:26
After looking at this again and recalling the many times I have seen others drill holes for thumbrests and the many times I have done it myself, I have come to realize 1 more thing that make me think that the tech in question is qualified only to lay carpet.
How is it possible that he didn't even notice the fact that the hole went through in the first place? Making the hole is one mistake, but I can't imagine that a technician with even a little experience that would not notice a mistake like this and then correct it.
-----
Donald wrote- "i guess that despite growing up surrounded by drug taking beatnik poets, "alternative lifestylers" and dreadlocked surfers i live by principles that include uncompromised honesty."
I grew up around these groups, too, and I think I have a bit of an honest streak, too. I guess those folks scared us straight; perhaps they should be used in anti-drug education in schools. -"Kids, if you smoke too much weed, you'll end up like THIS!"
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Author: spiderbelle
Date: 2007-03-07 16:52
Here's what makes me even more miffed . . . I believe the tech KNEW that the bore was pierced. The tech spent a lot of time making sure that the lower joint sealed, which I thought was weird . . . but assuming that they were just checking out the rest of my clarinet (which is in pristine shape, thanks to last year's overhaul by John Butler!)
I contacted the tech, and all I asked for was a refund of the "work" performed and compensation for shipping to/from Morrie (not cheap -- overnight FedEx to Canada was $77 one-way).
This was the response . . .
"Sorry for the problem. I was concerned about the length of the screws as you heard me say. I will refund your money but I can and will also be willing to fix the problem for free."
That's it. A bit flippant, IMO. Especially since the TR was installed way too low in the first place. Still haven't heard any response about paying for shipping. I think that's reasonable, considering that I would be asking for compensation for the actual repair too, except Morrie is graciously doing it free of charge.
Well, if push comes to shove . . . good thing my husband is a lawyer! ;-)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-03-07 19:21
Dunno about the specific laws in your country - here you must give the original "performer" the chance to correct a mistake or to refund you the money (choice of the other party).
If you don't do that (give that chance) and instead have the item fixed someplace else, you void your implicit warranty and the first party is out of the noose and not liable for other expenses.
(That's why buying stuff from overseas is a bit of a tricky business here as the shipping alone is often more expensive than a local fix)
--
Ben
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Author: spiderbelle
Date: 2007-03-07 20:01
This story just keeps getting worse . . .
Just heard back from Morrie and my clarinet was damaged more than I had thought. It turns out that all 3 holes for the screws pierced the bore -- I just wasn't able to tell by looking at it. Also, a crack had formed in between two of the holes.
That's a LOT of damage! All I wanted was a new thumbrest!!
I am FURIOUS.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-08 00:59
I'd be [expletive] livid too!
It's a very hard lesson learnt - I trusted someone that gave it the big I AM about how he was an expert woodwind engineer, blah, blah, blah to refit my newly silver plated keywork on my Centered Tone A (as I didn't have the equipment back then) and he made a right pig's ear of it - DRILLING out the key barrels and pillars to 2.2mm instead of 2mm, fitting poorly made screws when he had plenty of 2mm ones to use, stripping threads, leaving stretch marks in the key barrels and just basically making a right mess - not to mention using cheap materials as well. Though he didn't charge a lot to do this, it probably would have cost a fortune to put right - fortunately (several years later) I could put it all right myself and did so, but it took some doing to correct his shortcomings.
But the good news is he no longer butchers instruments, probably due to the amount of dissatisfied customers, and I've learnt if I want a good job done, I'm best off doing it myself.
Some people have no respect.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2007-03-08 01:01)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-08 06:17
What I would do (assuming Morrie Backun will repair it for free even with the bigger damage) is just ask for a refund from the other repairer and hope that covers some (most?) of the shipping cost. Unless you want to get into a big battle because of this. I wouldn't.
It seems this repairer either didn't notice he made a huge mess, which means he is most likely a very bad repairer, or maybe he noticed and didn't tell you, which means he is a terrible repairer and person. You should warn others about this repairer so they can avoid damage to their instruments.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-03-08 09:11
spiderbelle- "The tech spent a lot of time making sure that the lower joint sealed, which I thought was weird".
This shows that he didn't know what was wrong, but he knew something wasn't right.
Ben- The custom in America is usually the same, but, personally, I would not be able to trust a mistake like this twice. Small mistakes are permissable, but this dude made the mistake 3!!! THREE!!! times.
ONCE IS A REALLY DUMB MISTAKE, BUT 3 TIMES IS A TOTAL LACK OF ABILITY- THIS GUY DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO REPAIR INSTRUMENTS. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!
What shop was this??
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-03-08 09:39
> What shop was this??
ACME Plumbing, Inc.
And yes, I wouldn't bring again my instrument either. I'd rather have my dentist drill those holes if there weren't any other tech in town.
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-08 10:03
"This story just keeps getting worse . . .
Just heard back from Morrie and my clarinet was damaged more than I had thought. It turns out that all 3 holes for the screws pierced the bore ..."
Bad things usually happen in threes.
It's still unbelieveable, and totally unprofessional and puts our profession to shame.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-03-08 13:02
I've followed this thread and I'd have to say shame on that tech. To bore through the body to the bore is very poor workmanship. He should have noticed that problem the first time when the lack of pressure the drill has going into the wood when I breaks through. I don't imaging doing it 3 Times!! Was he using a dremel or a DRILL PRESS ?!?!
And then I assume he did a very basic vacuum test. Not very good at problem / resolution scenario .. but then 3 times ??
now that i think of it, i'd check the other body half, see if he drilled into that.
I know Morrie will get your clarinet back in the best shape.
==========
Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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