 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2007-02-24 02:28
Hi
I have a theory about support that I would like some feedback on.
I do not view support as being a direct application of stomach muscles to give a desired tonal result. I see it in the contrary manner. To my mind, loud and soft, low and high notes require different amounts air to speak clearly.
Now my knowledge of anatomy is extremely shaky, but I'm going to give this a shot. In normal breathing, the diaphragm works in an involuntary fashion, rising as you breath out and falling to an low position to allow air into the lungs. When playing a wind instrument, we want air to come in as quickly as possible, so we try and stay relaxed when we breathe in so this involuntary movement can occur without interruption.
However, it would be no good to let the same involuntary action take place on the out breath, because we'd only be able to play for a second or two. In order to slow this process, we use muscular control (not sure which muscles exactly) to stop the diaphragm from rising too prematurely. This muscular control however is not an entirely conscious undertaking. Rather, it is an indirect result of trying to maintain a constant level of air pressure. Perhaps another way of putting it, is blowing a certain amount of air at a given point. If you try blowing a small quantity of air onto the palm of your hand without varying the amount of air (i.e without blips or stops) you might be able to feel these muscles at working. (If this doesn't seem to work, try doing it with a small relaxed in-breath or just without consciously breathing in at all)
This brings me to my hypothesis. The muscular activity called 'support' is an indirect result of good control of the airstream. If a player wants better 'support' what he really needs to practice is getting the right amount/air speed of air for any given note/dynamic. This of course needs to be practiced regularly so it can become automatic. By finding this, the player automatically finds the correct amount of muscular control.
I think is slightly misguided to concentrate on the abdominal muscles that control the rising of the diaphragm as the chance of getting them to work in the same way as they do unconsciously seems unlikely.
I apologise if some of this is unclear (or with regards to anatomy, wildly inaccurate!). I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.
Cheers
Alex
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Author: mk
Date: 2007-02-24 03:42
before you come up a theory such as this....find out 2 things for me...1) can muscles contract in more than 1 direction? 2) what direction will diaphram muscles contract and what results when they contract.....Find these answers in a physiology text book and then we can discuss your theory...Ia basic understanding of the lung inhalation/expiration process will help you better understand what is happening when you play an instrument.
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2007-02-24 04:35
That's fair enough.
However, the main hypothesis (which largely doesn't refer to anatomical concerns) is what I am mainly concerned with. And I am trying to find a way to describe support without getting too bogged down in details in what actually happens.
I know from my own experience that my mind boggles whenever any says 'support with your diaphragm' or even 'support more'. The best remedy for me has been to focus on the quantity and speed of the air appropriate for the notes and dynamics. And then the appropriate muscular activity has always followed. If I focus on my abdominal muscles, I always overuse them.
I should add that I have completed a music degree and have played professionally. This is a set of concepts that works for me.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-02-24 05:00
Hello Alexis,
Have you read the "Support" article offered by Tony Pay in the keepers bulletin board? You might find this helpfull to identify with or argue against.
I believe that you cannot "support" with the diaphragm: the diaphragm is a muscle that pulls air INTO the lung cavity. It cannot push air out.
It is a combination of the abdominal and the intercostal muscles the push or "support" pressure against the lungs. The support of the lung cavity is not the same as the changes in air speed that create dynamic contrast.
Air speed is important for the quality of sound and for control of the instrument. I believe that a combination of deep breathing (diaphramatic) combined with support (core muscle) and along with the proper tongue position allows for the easiest performance of the clarinet.
There are many different paths to success... and this is a good topic to disagree about...
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2007-02-24 07:50
James wrote:
> Have you read the "Support" article offered by Tony Pay in the
> keepers bulletin board?
:-)
> I believe that you cannot "support" with the diaphragm: the
> diaphragm is a muscle that pulls air INTO the lung cavity. It
> cannot push air out.
No, you CAN support with the diaphragm -- it's just that there are two senses of the word 'support', and the second sense is being used when we talk about the action of the diaphragm in clarinet playing. (The fact that there are two senses has been responsible for much confusion over the years.)
The diaphragm 'supports' the blowing action of the abdominal muscles in the same sense that the chair supports the downward action of your weight when you sit in it. In both cases the supporting action OPPOSES the primary action.
This means that when you play with support, you are in fact 'playing quieter than you are blowing', because of the opposition of the diaphragm to the abdominal muscles.
The advantage of the technique is that you have more precise control and faster response at your disposal.
The wrinkle in the explanation, and why the subject is so controversial, is the rarely-appreciated fact that we can't FEEL our diaphragm in the same way that we can feel our abdominal muscles. But we can learn to use it.
The clearest way to get an idea of the situation is to perform what I call the 'magic diminuendo'. That's explained in the thread that James referenced above; there are some other aspects of the technique discussed there too.
James further wrote:
> There are many different paths to success... and this is a good topic to
> disagree about...
There are many different ways to talk about the experience of playing. However, I believe that it's important to understand the basic facts behind those ways of talking; and I've tried in the thread, and here, to outline those.
Tony
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-02-24 13:26
It has been my underestanding that the diaphragm muscular activity is not something one can control specifically. Whenever anyone has instructed me to work with my diaphragm in any manner I interpret it as an instruction to use my stomach and upper chest muscles. Many people probably have never been introduced to the concept that one's stomach should be distended when taking in air.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2007-02-24 15:18
BobD wrote:
> It has been my underestanding that the diaphragm muscular
> activity is not something one can control specifically.
> Whenever anyone has instructed me to work with my diaphragm in
> any manner I interpret it as an instruction to use my stomach
> and upper chest muscles.
Well, now you know better, don't you?
Tony
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2007-02-25 04:08
Ok, I think I have realised the problem with what I wrote.
After re-reading Tony's article (which I had read before) and experimenting, I think I do support in a similar way. However, as I have been doing so for some time, my focus has changed from the action of my abdominal muscles to control the airflow, to just concentrating on the airflow required (with the abdominal muscles following suit).
I actually learnt my method of support through a technique called Accent Breathing, which encourages training of the abdominal muscles to the point of them acting automatically. Perhaps this explains why I see the issue from a slightly different angle
Anyway thanks for your feedback
Post Edited (2007-02-25 04:31)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-02-25 18:42
And now I'll go back and reread the article to make sure there aren't other points that I've missinterpreted!
Yes Tony, I see your point about diaphragmatic support. Thanks again!
James Tobin
PS...Tony, we met in Charlottesville, Virginia after the OAE performance at the Paramount Theater. Wonderfull performance, and thanks again for yout time!
Gnothi Seauton
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