 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2007-02-22 11:01
In what pitch do manufacturers build their instruments?
What I mean is this: if I push all the joints in on my Selmer Paris, it comes out at around 442Hz, give or take a few cents for mouthpiece effects. This is sharper than some other instruments I've played. Presumably there's some deliberate design intent here to allow for all sorts of different tuning standards and players and mouthpieces and weather conditions - any idea what this is? How does a manufacturer decide what Joe Average's setup and playing style will be? Do manufacturers ship instruments which they expect to be pulled out slightly by most players? Do other manufacturers expect many players to come back to order a shorter barrel?
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Author: TheButler
Date: 2007-02-22 11:12
My Lyrique Bb clarinet has a pitch of 442Hz, which was done by Tom Ridenour himself, because where I life (Europe-Netherlands) that's the 'standard'. 440Hz is the standard for his instruments though, because most of his customers (I assume) are from the US.
Post Edited (2007-02-22 11:13)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-02-22 11:52
Quoting from the website of clarinet maker Peter Eaton: "The suggestion from some makers that mouthpieces or clarinets have a fixed absolute pitch is unrealistic. A clarinet/mouthpiece/reed combination does not have a precise pitch until a player combines with them, and the pitch resulting from a particular set-up can vary by a surprisingly large degree, depending on who is playing it. Read Jack Brymer's wise words on the subject in his book "Clarinet" (Yehudi Menuhin Music Guides) pages 131-2. The two players he mentions are himself and Roy Jowitt who were the two London Symphony principals at the time of writing."
I personally agree with this.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-02-22 14:39
Peter Eaton also states that his clarinets are designed to be in tune with themselves with the barrel pulled out by 1mm.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-02-22 17:12
One cannot expect all other instruments at a given moment to be tuned to A=440 either. In warm air conditions (direct sunlight is a worst case scenario) a clarinet will play MUCH sharper. In cold air clarinets will play much flatter. The bottom line is that one can always pull out but it is impossible to make your instrument shorter on the spot. So a good manufacturer will allow reasonable "play" in the pitch.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: kev182
Date: 2007-02-23 03:51
My clarinet stock is extremely sharp. With its original 64mm barrel and vandoren mouthpiece pitched at 442. I was playing 445 pretty consistenly.
Coming to the US I had to get a 66MM and 13 Series. Now I'm around 442 at room temperature.
Personally I would rather have a clarinet that plays slightly sharp so I have more flexibility to tune.
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-02-23 09:23
I understand that a pitch may change due to the player and mouthpiece.
But if you check the manufacturers website they make various instruments in various pitches - Buffet, Selmer, etc
Some instruments from the same manufacturer are only available at only 442, others only 440, others both.
http://www.buffet-crampon.com/en/instruments.php?mode=productSpecifications&pid=673
http://www.henri-selmer.com/html/english/claribas/claris/cla7/cla7.htm
Normally aren't the toneholes higher placed for higher pitched instruments ?
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-02-23 12:48
Got curious about this question, and borrowed my husband's electronic tuner. (He doesn't like an electronic tuner any more than I do, but finds it useful for competing with other string players' electronic tuners at quartet bouts--oops, I mean rehearsals.) I only tested a few clarinets and only Bb clarinets.
The first clarinet I ever owned, a 1957 wooden Conn, has built-in intonation problems, with wide 12ths and wonky throat tones. With the original Conn plastic mouthpiece (how I wish a teacher had known enough to tell me to accidentally leave it where the family car would back over it...), that clarinet is about 440 Hz. The Hite Premiere mouthpiece noticibly improves the tone quality, but doesn't affect the concert A pitch. Old, unmarked, shorter and rounder mouthpieces from the 1930s make the throat tone intonation problems worse and throw the clarinet so flat overall that it's useless for playing with a modern piano or ensemble: 438 or even lower.
A plastic Bundy from the 1980s with the original (atrocious) Bundy mouthpiece squealed in at 444 Hz! I guess the theory was that beginners play way flat, so better make the clarinet way sharp. That clarinet also has very wide 12ths. With the vastly better Hite Premiere mouthpiece, this clarinet steps back to 442 Hz, a useful pitch. The 12ths are still still pretty wide, but the instrument is usable, because it's very easy to bend the pitch with this clarinet and this mouthpiece. I don't play the Bundy much, but when I do, I never use the Bundy mouthpiece.
My 1937 Bb Buffet, played with mouthpieces from the 1920s or 1930s, is 440 Hz, and goes out of tune with itself (especially the throat tones--some going flat and some sharp) if I try to sharpen it overall by using a modern mouthpiece.
A wooden Selmer Signet Special, probably from the mid-1980s, with a W. Sumner "Accusticut" No. 3 mouthpiece, is bang-on 440 Hz and a good clarinet with that mouthpiece. With the Hite Premiere, it's a smidge sharper--although by the time I tested it, I caught myself cheating, bending the pitch higher with embouchure because the look of those two mouthpieces put the expectation in my head that the Hite would play sharper, even though in fact I think it didn't! But that crummy Bundy mouthpiece threw the whole instrument out of tune with itself *and* raised the pitch to just under 442 Hz.
A plastic Yamaha 20 with a Yamaha 4C mouthpiece, from the 1980s, plays sharp, 442 Hz, and doesn't play in tune with itself with any of my other mouthpieces. The natural pitch may be even higher, because this was the last clarinet I tested, and I think by that time, I'd started to fixate on centering the needle and was compulsively pulling the pitch down. Object lesson in the unwisdom of looking at a dial while practicing instead of *listening*....
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2007-02-23 15:03
This discussion seems to assume that the manufacturer supplied the barrel that God intended. If there is no 'standard' barrel length, it seems idle to talk about certain brands of clarinets being naturally sharp. Note that the original poster said nothing about the length of his/her barrel.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-02-23 15:08
Lelia - good observation.
I think I "hire" one of my kids next time I fool around with the tuning, so that I don't see the pitch values (btw there's a nice software tuner at http://www1.ocn.ne.jp/~tuner/tuner_e.html).
Now we know why blind tests are so important...
--
Ben
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