 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chocluver
Date: 2007-02-16 20:34
I am looking for opinions/advice regarding using my old B flat clarinet as a beginner piece for my 11 year old who will start taking lessons this summer and begin playing with the beginning school band in the fall. I have a 33 year old clarinet marked Bundy Mazzeo Model on the top section above the keys and marked Bundy Resonite Selmer USA on the bell. It needs new pads and corks, but otherwise is in good condition. I played this clarinet in middle and high school and remember that it had alternate fingerings for a few notes and that it had a closed thumb that everyone else didn't have. I am thinking that if I go ahead with the overhaul of this clarinet, that I would want to upgrade my daughter to a wood, intermediate model for concert use before she enters high school, but that she would be able to keep it for outdoor marching band/pep band activities. Would learning on this style clarinet create any immediate learning problems or with future transition to an upgrade? Is it possibly not even worth the overhaul, which will probably be around $175 (estimate). I also have my original mouthpiece, a Selmer Paris HS*. Should I buy a new mouthpiece/liguature for her or is this an adequate mouthpiece for a beginner? Any advice/opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-02-16 21:15
The problem with the Mazzeo model is that you'll never be able to buy one off the shelf as I don't think Selmer make them any more, so if your daughter gets used to using the Mazzeo system (if she has a teacher that has an understanding of it) and wants a better clarinet later on, the only ones you'll find will be on eBay by Selmer USA or Selmer Paris which will date from the '70s and may need a lot of work doing to them.
As for new student clarinets, a new plastic one from a reputable company is a better buy as now the major clarinet manufacturers only tend to concentrate on the standard 17 key 6 ring configuration, and you have more choice whe it comes to upgrading to a wooden one later on.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: allclarinets
Date: 2007-02-16 21:30
I play a Mazzeo and it has an actuator parallel to the 3rd side key where the "Mazzeo Mechanism" is located. This actuator pulls in and out allowing you to turn the "system" on and off. When I teach lessons with it I turn it off. When I'm still trying to figure it out I turn it on.
This should make the instrument quite useable for a beginner...that is, if it's worth the overhaul. I bought mine from a world class repairman for $300 and he had that sucker like new.
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Author: Chocluver
Date: 2007-02-16 21:54
I don't remember this model having the ability to "shut off" the Mazzeo Mechanism. I still have the seven page "manual" that came with this clarinet eons ago! Inside the front page it says: "One of the principal advantages of your new Mazzeo model clarinet is the superior tone-quality possible on the throat B flat. This note, incidentally, is the ONLY ONE which is fingered differently than shown on charts for the ordinary Boehm clarinet. Another advantage of this model is that the most awkward of four fundamental thumb positions is completely eliminated. It is no longer necessary to use the thumb to operate the register key alone as it normally does on throat B flat. You will soon discover too, that covering the thumb hole is greatly simplified by the use of a plateau (covered) thumb key instead of a thumb ring. (I'm wondering if this feature would hinder my daughter in the conversion to a "standard" clarinet if we upgraded later, or simply be something to learn to overcome, similar to transitioning from a student flute to an open holed flute.) The throat B flat may be fingered with the A key plus any one, or any combination of the following rings: 2nd finger, left hand, 1st, 2nd or 3rd finger right hand. The fingering should be determined by the note which follows or precedes the throat B flat.
With this info..........will learning on this clarinet and then probably transitioning to a regular intermediate clarinet three years later be an issue? Thanks again for your opinions.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-02-16 22:23
I don't think it would be too much of a hardship, upgrading later to a wooden instrument. It sounds like it would be a fairlly minor adjustment, to me. HAve the instrument looked over to see if it is worth getting into shape.
If not, there are plenty of good beginner/inttermediate horns out there, including the Forte and the Ridenour models, as well as the standards of the Buffet B or E series, the various Selmers, and the Leblanc/Vito offerings. Oh yeah, Yamaha makes some decenbt beginner instruments, too. My daughter started out on a good intermediate horn (an Evette-Schaeffer Master Model) and is doing vey well at present. She has since upgraded to my original 1971 R13.
Look at the "Keepers"section, too, to see what horn brands to AVOID!
Jeff
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2007-02-16 22:48
You wrote:
"The throat B flat may be fingered with the A key plus any one, or any combination of the following rings: 2nd finger, left hand, 1st, 2nd or 3rd finger right hand. The fingering should be determined by the note which follows or precedes the throat B flat."
In fact, many of us with non-Mazzeo clarinets use one or all of these fingers when fingering a Bb, all depending on the intonation required!
Re-learning to use the register key on a Bb may prove to be the challenge, as may convincing a band director that she's playing "the right note." You may want to converse with the band director in advance just to be sure they're open to having it in the class.
As far as good student models, stick with Yamaha, Buffet, Leblanc, and Selmer.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2007-02-16 23:38
Another option, if you don't have any particular emotional attachment to the Mazzeo might be to put it in playing condition, sell it and put the money toward a new student model for your daughter. If you were to do a full overhaul on your clarinet, I doubt you would recover the cost in a sale.
A couple of other things to consider and only you can answer them because you know your daughter. The Mazzeo will look different from the clarinets the other kids have. At your daughter's age some kids would find that "cool" and unique. Many children at that age, however, don't want to be singled out as "different" and would likely be self-conscious about the difference and, if there are any nasty or comptetitive kids around, may be open to being teased. Also, many children at that age are more inclined to evaluate an instrument by whether it is new and shiny than by its long-term potential (which, to be honest, with an old plastic Mazzeo Bundy isn't all that great anyway). But, as I said before, only you can evaluate the importance of these factors to your daughter.
To address your original question, however, and the topic of this thread, there are now a number of mouthpieces made specifically for beginners. They are designed to have low resistance and good response for someone with a developing embouchure. I can highly recommend from personal experience, the Hite Premier and Fobes Debut mouthpieces. Neither should set you back much more than $30 new. Regardless of what else you do, I would recommend you invest in one of these or one of the other similar mouthpieces that others on the board are likely to recommend.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-02-16 23:41
But, hang on to the Mazzeo until you know its market value. These things (as mentioned) are becoming hard to find.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Ed
Date: 2007-02-16 23:50
Fobes Debut would be my suggestion for a great mouthpiece. As to the clarinet, I know that the standard intermediate and pro Mazzeo models had a clutch mechanism as some mentioned, which enabled it to be disengaged. I don't know if this was the case with the Bundy model. I don't know if this would be a huge problem or not. Others have addressed the concerns on this issue.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2007-02-17 02:05
"But, hang on to the Mazzeo until you know its market value. These things (as mentioned) are becoming hard to find."
The wooden ones, particularly the professional models seem to be holding some value but the plastic ones aren't particularly rare, nor are they particularly desirable to collectors -- more a curiosity than anything else. Current market price on eBay ranges from around $100 - $150, depending on condition. ($150 for a fully reconditioned instrument).
Hang onto it if it has sentimental value. As an investment, you'd probably do better buying a (bank) cd.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2007-02-17 12:31
Young players are very brand conscious, even if it's just awareness of advertising that forms their opinion.
If you have a local repair shop, it may be worthwhile to check their available rentals - so many kids give up in less than three months.
The Fobes Debut, and Ridenour line of student mouthpieces are reed friendly and inexpensive. Consider the Legere synthetic reeds to avoid the handling problems that go with natural cane.
If your child stays with it, the Mazzeo horns are just fine.
I like the Ridenour Lyrique/Arioso/TR147 clarinet models for my use, and they're almost impossible to crack in rough handling.
The Forte clarinets are also well received on this BBS by some serious players.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-02-17 13:22
I agree with the advice offered by Jack K and S B [and others], and believe that a beginner should start with a "conventional" 17/6 clarinet, since the long-term availability of Mazzeo's [and others re: improving the "pinch" Bb {also good}] inventions would be a continuing problem and "difference". His/their improvements did cause the "Big 4" makers to research the sometimes-poor register key designs and provide acceptable Bb tonality. Another drawback in the M's and others cls, might be in finding teachers and band directors who would understand and accept the keying differences. I own a Mazzeo-Bundy, a Stubbins and a McIntyre, all different, but still play only the "tried & true" soprano Bb cl. My alto and bass, which badly need the reg key/ Bb improvements, have them, without the fingering differences from conventional. Yes, I'd keep the M-B for later "outdoor" use when your student has "graduated" toward a better wood inst., and wish her good fortune and congrats for starting. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: sherman
Date: 2007-02-17 18:12
I have perhaps a dozen Fobes Debut mouthpieces and they all play beautifully. In fact, I bought a Fobes San Francisco Model, beautiful, but no better than the Debut, and I would play a concert this evening on one. It is the best student mouthpiece, and perhaps the best mouthpiece I've known, and they are consistant and practically free.
As to clarinet, I played the Mazzeo system for more than 30 years, including Principal in a symphony orchestra (Milwaukee) and every piece of chamber music written at that time and I swear by the instrument, and yes I studied with him for 6 years. It is,was a great solution to many clarinet problems and did not raise any new ones.....save one: If you want try a few Mazzeo Clarinets to select one new, you cannot and could not do it, for Selmer was the only maker and not as many people played Selmer then, not as many as now. That the Principal in the Philldelphia Orchestra plays Selmer is truly extraordinary, in light of the recent past. But so too is Leblanc ,played by many great players. There was a time when only Bufffet was allowed/ anyway, the Mazzeo is an interesting horn, plays well, and the Signet was a good one. You can still see Selmer Paris instruments around, their value being mostly intrinsic.
For an investment, a bank is a neat safe idea, as a career, banking is also good. If you want to play the clarinet as a lifetime position.....gird your loins.
"Playing clarinet aint for sissies", (a paraphrase of Bette Davis' )"Gettin' old aint for sissies"
.
Best always,
Sherman Friedland
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