 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Elkwoman46
Date: 2007-02-12 18:06
I used to use reeds that were no more than a size 2 Rico on the clarinet that I had, and now I have learned that the Vandoren mouthpiece I have on my Normandy 4 would be much better suited for a 3 or more.
Could I safely expect to be able to play this? Or do I need to graduate first to a 2.5? I just don't want to throw money away, either way. I am planning to buy Vandoren V12's. With the size 2, I have been playing and it does sound too lame, so I know I am ready to advance, but is a 3 too much of a step?
Or could I even advance further to a 3.5?
I have no idea.
Thanks bunches.
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2007-02-12 18:10
Probably so... However, I'd suggest you purchase one 2.5 and one 3 and conduct an experiment.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-02-12 18:33
This depends completely on whether a strength 3 reed is too hard for you, and that's impossible to know unles you try one (or more). I suggest to try a 2.5 reed first, because if you can play on a 3 reed you can mostly do eveyrthing with a 2.5 reed too.
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Author: D
Date: 2007-02-12 21:48
a size 2 rico is not equivalent to a 2 vandoren, the jump would be vast.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=142494&t=142494
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-02-12 23:17
If you feel the lower register is fuzzy or stuffy sounding (and your jaw is aching), then the reed you're using is too hard. So drop down half a strength from that one to a softer one.
If the reed you're currently playing on feels loud and brash (provided you're embouchure good) and thin up top, then you will probably need to up the strength.
Reed strengths are variable from each different company, even though they generally use the same numbering system from 1 to 5 and every half (and even quarter) strength in between, so a Rico 2.5 is roughly the same strength as a Vandoren 2.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Clarinet4hire
Date: 2007-02-13 02:07
It depends on the mouthpiece. If it was designed to take a 4 (close tip), it will play as easy as a mouthpiece designed to take a 1.5 (open tip).
Not as much to do with embouchure strength as one might think. That would relate more to endurance than ease of blowing.
I can't tell you how many people I've surprised by putting a harder reed on, and it blew easier. A lot of people equate hard reeds to soft reeds that are simply shutting off/collapsing. This is usually where the jaw ache comes from. Too much biting, which only complicates the problem, forcing them to bite harder. This makes for very bad habbits, one very frustrated performer, and lunch out a mouthpiece:). (Not to mention dental problems as well.)
Leaks in the instrument can cause reed frustrations as well.
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Author: Elkwoman46
Date: 2007-02-13 16:18
Thanks bunches everyone. I really do see that I am having some kind of melt down, though, with the reed I am using...I think it is entirely too wimpy for the mouthpiece and I am in the process of obtaining new reeds.
I am however enjoying my lessons thoroughly. God has been really good to me, I must say, for some reason it all seems so so much easier this time around. Thanks everyone for the great information. You have all helped me tremendously.
Thanks again.
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Author: Elkwoman46
Date: 2007-02-28 16:57
Hi, everyone...just wanted to say that I got in the V12 Vandoren reeds in size 3 and well, I am astonished because I'm getting a lot of high sounds and a few lower sounds, and some squeaks...it is so so so different from the Rico 2 reeds. I have to admit I am struggling, but I just tried them.
Is this normal for the transition? Should I drop down to 2.5 reeds? Or just stick with it?
Thanks for all the advice.
Thank you so kindly.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-02-28 19:01
Karen --
I agree with what "clarinet4hire" said -- it depends as much on what reed your mouthpiece is designed for, as it does on your chops. All other things being equal, harder reeds go on mouthpieces with more closed tips, softer on more open tips.
So, I forget -- what mouthpiece are you playing?
Suffice it to say, in general, that your reed/mouthpiece setup should not cause you to fear intestinal rupture. It needs to be optimally resistant -- strong enough to enable you to blow a pure, clear tone, but vibrant enough that you don't exhaust yourself doing it.
Susan
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Author: Elkwoman46
Date: 2007-02-28 19:20
Thank you Susan! I do think it is a little bit much for me at this point.
The mouthpiece is a Vandoren B45. I ordered Vandoren V12 Size 3 reeds, but somehow I'm a bit worried that it is too much, although I can play it; but like you say, I'm wondering about that intestinal rupture too...LOL!!!!!!!
GRIN. (and what happened to all the low notes I was getting previously??? Very strange as I am discovering in the world of clarinet reeds Totally amazed at the contrast!!! LOL)
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Author: energia eolica
Date: 2007-02-28 19:48
When you get down to 2s and 2.5s of any reed company, you are dealing with a consistent reed anyway. Jump to the 3 and think nothing of it. There's no reason that should be too hard.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2007-02-28 19:59
Hi,
I hope the intestinal rupture hasn't put you off! ;-)
You said:
-- "and now I have learned that the Vandoren mouthpiece I have on my Normandy 4 would be much better suited for a 3 or more." --
Then:
-- "The mouthpiece is a Vandoren B45. I ordered Vandoren V12 Size 3 reeds, but somehow I'm a bit worried that it is too much," --
The B45 better suited for a 3 or more? Who on earth told you that?
The B45 is a wide tip, better suited for low strength reeds. I think a Vandoren no. 3 is pretty much at the limit.
You said that your size 2 sounded 'lame'. Perhaps you just need to change the reed, reposition the reed on the MP, experiment with your embouchure or perhaps try a 2.5 as others have said.
Steve
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Author: Avie
Date: 2007-02-28 23:41
I have been using a Vandoren V12 2.5's for a while. They seem to be the most effortless to play with a Vandoren 5RV lyre-13 MP on my Buffet or my Selmer.
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Author: Clarinet4hire
Date: 2007-03-01 00:54
2.5-3 Vandoran blue box or V-12s are a good combination for a B-45.
I notice you said that you are fighting "squeeks." Are you changing your embouchure at all? Play some slow scales in front of a large "bathroom" (or that type) mirror. Watch your embouchure very closely, and do not allow yourself to bite. Try playing them with a double lip embouchure to make sure your not biting. Sometimes this can show you some unknown bad habbits.
If that doesn't help you, do you know sombody that can help you see if the table on the mpc is warped? On a Vandoran mpc, with a thin piece of glass lying flat on the mpc table, you should see three places on the mpc where the glass actually touches the mpc. At the bottom of the table, and the bottom(not the tip) of the rails on each side. As you roll the glass with the curvature of the mouthpiece to the tip of the mpc, the two rails should touch the glass at the same place on both sides all the way to the tip (providing you use equal pressure on both rails when you roll the glass to the tip).
I'm not sure that would work with a French curve, but that would be an older mpc anyhow, not a B-45.
I hope that helps.
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Author: job_man
Date: 2007-03-07 21:25
Hello Elkwoman
I have followed the thread you started, and am feeling sorry for you! With so much disparate advice, you must be wondering what has hit you.
First things first: understanding about the mouthpiece/reed relationship. The strength of reed you will ultimately choose will depend on the mouthpiece you are using. It is futile to bandy strength numbers around because they vary from maker to maker, and in my experience they vary from reed to reed, even with the same strength number, in some makes - particularly VanDoren. I would therefore steer clear of VanDoren reeds at this stage, and use reeds which are more reliable as to similar grading being found from reed to reed e.g. Rico (they are cheaper too!). You may not end up using Rico reeds when you are more of an expert player, but they will do to make comparisons of mouthpieces.
The mouthpiece you have is, in my experience, a rather unyielding and heavy-to-blow item, so perhaps you should choose another, perhaps a 11.6 if you can still get those. Unfortunately the most popular mouthiece of VanDoren, the 5RV is also the worst - AVOID!
Having found your mouthpiece, you will need to buy a fair number of reeds, of different strengths, in order to find the best combination with your mouthpiece. It now comes down to your technique of breath control (I hate to say 'blowing') and embouchure set-up. There can be no substitute for having a good teacher (if you can find one!) at this stage. A good test of reeds (and your embouchure/breath control) is to play lower register low Bb, add the register key, and then slide the top finger off. This will give you three registers, and if you cannot play all three slurred together beautifully, you must be doing something wrong! I use this as an exercise for all pupils to do at home, because it is self-monitoring: if it doesn't work, they're not doing it right.
Personally I veer away from worrying about 'tone' at this stage, The main consideration is whether you can control things like quiet and loud entries, make a good range of dynamic, and tongue without too much clatter (although you may have a faulty technique for tonguing - most people have).
Having found the right reed strength, stick to it but be prepared to move up a notch as you progress because you will inevitably give it more 'welly' as time goes on, and the resistance of the reed may be insufficient.
Watch out for biting the reed. Evidence of this can be seen if you take the reed off and look along its side from the heel end. If it curves dramatically inwards towards the mouthpiece side, you have been over-biting.
By the way, there is a test you can do to check your current mouthpiece for accuracy of the lay: take it off the clarinet, with reed on. Place the lower, open end hard against the palm of your hand, and then put your mouth over the business end and suck the air out. If the mouthpiece has a good, even and equal lay, the reed will not pop off for about 3 to 5 seconds. If it comes off straight away, you have trouble!
I hope this helps.
John
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