 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clariphant in Bb
Date: 2007-01-27 06:36
I need help identifying an old Clarinet, mouthpiece, and ligature.
I've provided quite a few photos of them at the following URL:
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/Clariphant_in_Bb/OldClar/
All the info I have on them as well as my own observations are below:
Mouthpiece:
The mouthpiece has absolutely no markings or numbers on it to indicate the maker. It does have 3 ligature lines (one upper, two lower). It feels quite closed to me, though it seems to play better with medium reeds (#4 Mitchell Luries are pushing it). The part that looks odd compared to my other mouthpieces is the shape of the curve at the tip of the mouthpiece. It's more pronounced than that of my Morgan RM 10, John Pierce, B45... or any of my reeds. It's definitely playable, and it has no chips on it or warpage, but I'd probably want to clean it quite a bit (gently, of course) before actually using it a lot. I can easily get out altissimo Gs and As at ppp, so it's quite impressive, though I still prefer the projection and middle registers of my more open pieces. I put lots of pics of it at the page posted earlier, including some comparison pics with a B45 and RM10. I'd really like to know what it is, as if it's still produced, I'd probably buy a newer one. Any info on this MP is GREATLY appreciated. I can't even begin to identify it.
Ligature:
It reads "Brevete S.G.D.G." (type of French patent, I believe) and "Penzel Mueller" followed by "New York - Paris." It appears to have a sort of pressure plate that reminds me of the Vandoren Optimum, though it's not removeable. It looks so tarnished and old that I doubt I'd actually use it, especially considering that I have an Optimum already. Any info would still be nice to know, though.
Clarinet:
The parts of the instrument read: "Rampone Milano Brevettato," and the inside of the case reads "Ditte riunite" followed by "A Rampone B Cazzani C" and "Milano." It has a wooden body with fused middle joints and was likely produced in the 40's, though I could be wrong. Near the bottom of the fused joint, there is an "A" with a "233" below it. It would definitely be playable after some not-to-drastic repairs. Any information on the quality, history, etc. of the instrument would be greatly appreciated. I posted about this once a while ago I believe, but I have yet to find out any information other than this, and I now have an accompanying ligature and mouthpiece to identify...
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Author: Ed
Date: 2007-01-27 11:39
Well, the ligature is exactly what is says. It is a Penzel Mueller. The pressure plate is removable only by removing the screws, as they thread through. These are very nice playing ligatures.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-01-27 13:03
What is the overall length of the assembled instrument? Is it pitched in Bb, or is it possibly an eefer?
S.
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2007-01-27 15:51
The mouthpiece might be a LeLandais. The tip rails on the older mouthpieces are frequently rounder than Vandoren V12 reeds, but they match well with Rue Lepic 56. Facings from that long ago were frequently closer than what we tend to play now- I've measured quite a few old Chedeville and LeLandais at 96 and less. This would mean that higher numbered reeds would feel relatively soft on these. As best as I can see from the photos, I wouldn't have the facing opened much, as the baffle appears to be too deep to comfortably handle the same facing as a B45 or Morgan RM10. The Mitchell Lurie reeds probably won't feel comfortable on the type of facing that these older mouthpieces usually came with. I'd suggest blue box Vandoren, Rue Lepic 56, or Rico Reserve.
Chris Hill
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Author: Clariphant in Bb
Date: 2007-01-27 16:00
Thanks very much for the info on the ligature, Ed.
The clarinet appears to be pitched in Bb.
Chris, thanks very much for the info. How did you manage to identify it?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-01-27 17:27
Hi C P - I can add that I also have a ligature like you describe, a pressure plate almost an inch long and a central knob to bolt-tighten the plate to the reed, very handy and secure. Mine says [in an oval ] H Selmer Paris, and I recall having seen the early patent on it, will try to find and post the #. RE: the cl maker's name, [almost certainly] Rampone and Cazzani of Milan, Italy, [Rampone patent] prob. listed in Rendall's book etc, likely mid 1900's, others, please help. Fun, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Clariphant in Bb
Date: 2007-01-28 01:48
I practiced with the mouthpiece today, and I've concluded that it is AMAZING... compared to my other mouthpieces, at least. Though the articulation speed suffered a bit since my reeds were slightly too wide, the tone was full of... ummm... overtones that weren't there with any other MP I use. I'm not very good with descriptive terminology for MP sound, but I know that it sounds good. I'll probably start using it for classical and orchestral stuff and keep using my JP for things where volume is more important than tone. Surprisingly, it seems to play well without any need for refacing, despite some scratches on the table. The table is perfectly flat, and there are no chips anywhere, so I guess it might not be that surprising though...
I'm kind of scared to use it without knowing its measurements, though. I'd want to be able to get something at least remotely similar if it broke...
Post Edited (2007-01-28 07:31)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-01-28 14:37
Your instrument has the logo of the Rampone firm, which was active in the late 19th and early 20th century. They made many unusual instruments, including a Hecklephone clone and a clarinette omnitonique, which had an interior tube that could be rotated to switch between two sets of keys, one in Bb and the other in A. Rendall discusses it. More about them (mostly their double reed instruments) is at http://idrs.colorado.edu/Publications/Journal/JNL17/JNL17.Joppig.Sarrus.html.
The ligature is just like the ones that used to ship (and perhaps still do) with Buffet clarinets, with a metal plate that presses on the bark of the reed. I've tried the Buffet ones and have not liked the way they played.
The mouthpiece could be anything. The rails and tip are quite wide, which tends to create stuffiness. It also looks pretty battered. It's possible that it could be made into something better.
Ken Shaw
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