 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clar502
Date: 2007-01-24 01:50
The university where I teach is in the market to purchase a new wood Eb soprano clarinet. They do not have the budget for the top models. Any suggestions for the next level down.
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Author: Fontalvo
Date: 2007-01-24 03:44
The person that plays Eb in the National Symphony told me that the E11 is a really good instrument. Do a search on the BB, there have been some topics on this.
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2007-01-24 05:09
Can they afford the Patricola? It would certainly be priced above the E11 but below the R13, I think. I recall someone posting here a few years ago who really liked the instrument. I play a Patricola C that I love. I've never played an Eb myself, though, any Eb.
Steve Epstein
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2007-01-24 07:42
Buffet E11 is generally superior to all the cheap models and still being cheap as well. It's as good as a pro model. The keys are nickel plated instead of silver and the wood is not selected for the prestige models, other than that it's a pro instrument. I would recommend it to all perofessional free lancers.
Alphie
Clarinet/Eb-clarinet RSPO
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-24 07:55
Are the E11 Eb clarinets made in France or Germany?
I've seen some that have 'Made In France' under the Buffet logo and some that haven't.
Or are the bodies made in France, but the keywork and finishing are done in Germany?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: CJB
Date: 2007-01-24 11:34
The Noblet Artist I played for many years was a very nice little instrument. Just lacked the range of dynamics (both extremes) and the variety of tone colours I can get from my Selmer. The intonation was pretty good until you hit the extreme altissimo.
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2007-01-24 11:56
I'll throw in the name Amati for an Eb.
I got one in Prague a few years ago and it's a little belter. Tunes very well with my Grabner Eb mouthpiece. Worth getting a trial. Generally sweet, but if roused, can take chimneys down.
BobT
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-24 12:43
I thought my plastic Vito Eb was a belter until I rebuilt an old R13 Eb - obviously there's no comparison but both are still good - the R13 is loads better up in the stratosphere and has much more warmth and resonance generally, and it even made a Noblet Eb owner (who has lost interest with his Eb) want one!
I'm using a Vandoren 5RV mouthpiece with it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2007-01-24 14:14
I’ve been playing a Noblet Eb for a couple years in community band. It’s a good intermediate instrument, but not pro quality. It’s very picky about fingerings above altissimo E. Some work, but many of the standard fingerings don’t. Altissimo intonation was greatly improved with a custom barrel and refaced Vandoren B-44 mouthpiece. Still, it still takes work to stay in tune up there. You can’t relax and just play the high notes. This is especially true with more open mouthpiece facings.
Tone is good but not nearly as full as a professional instrument. Recently I picked up an ancient Carl Fischer with a wrap around register key (probably a Buffet) and the sound of that instrument absolutely blows the Noblet out of the water. It’s much more full and complex without the “Halloween” sound of so many Ebs.
On the plus side, the Noblet has very low resistance. Unlike CJB, mine has excellent dynamic range. Pianissimo through forte are stable and sound good. It gets a bit shrill above forte. Another good thing about Noblets is that there are a lot of them out there, so you can pick up a good Eb for a reasonable price. As usual, play before you buy.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2007-01-24 14:30
The Noblets are good horns but extremely variable in intonation and sound. I had a nice one that was my pick out of a batch of 4 some 38 years ago. It did have the weak high E but by adding the sliver key on the right hand that note would come in close to in tune. On that horn I used a 5RV VanDoren mouthpiece and 4 Van Doren reeds. All of that should be well within the price range that they need. Hopefully they'll lket you be involved with the selection process so you can get one with a big and controlled sound.
Before I got my first Buffet, I did use this in professional performances, including Til and Bolero. It is no Buffet but it's not an embarassment either.
Eefer guy
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2007-01-24 15:46
Clar502, my experience from having played Eb-clarinet in a major symphony orchestra for 20 years is that intonation is priority one. The biggest chance to purchase an Eb-clarinet with good intonation is to stick to the big labels such as Buffet, Selmer, LeBlanc and Yamaha. Each label have its own advantages and disadvantages, it’s a matter of taste and what you are used to before.
The Buffet E11 is in my opinion a professional instrument. In a blind test between Prestige and E11 I have failed a few times. A good E11 is as good as any Prestige in my opinion. Many years ago I used to play a Noblet Artist. The E11 is by far the better instrument and light years from Bundy or other cheap models. Take my advice for what It’s worth.
Alphie
Clarinet/Eb-clarinet RSPO
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2007-01-24 17:05
I second Alphie's opinion of the E11 Eb! I have a student who purchased one last year, and I have been amazed at the quality of this instrument. Tone is full and round, and the intonation (w/Vandoren B44) is excellent. Interesting that the trill keys are in-line a la Leblanc. Francois Kloc says this is for economies of manufacture.
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Author: clar502
Date: 2007-01-24 20:39
Thank-you all for your input. I was thinking the E11 would serve the purpose. Now I need suggestions for an Eb mouthpiece. I have narrowed it down to Hite, Clark Fobes or Vandoren. Any thoughts or recommendations would be useful.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-24 23:10
Vandoren 5RV as a good all round starter one, though compare them all - and take a tuner when you do.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2007-01-25 07:54
5RV is a good easy to play mouthpiece for a start. Also try the B40 for a dark sound with not too hard reeds. The tip rail of the B40 is wider for eliminating the top overtones and gives for that reason a darker sound.
Alphie
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-01-25 08:52
I have experience only with my Vito plastic Eb and a top professional Leblanc Eb. The pro Leblanc is much more in tune, but I like the sound of my Vito much more (though its intonation is terrible).
About the mouthpieces, I never tried a Hite but I play a Fobes on bass clarinet and Vandoren on Eb and alto clarinets. The Fobes is an excellent mouthpiece and I recommend it (assuming his Eb mouthpieces are the same level). The Vandorens are also excellent and I would recommend them too (for some reason I never liked Vandorens on bass). I would try as many as you can, because they have (especailly Vandoren) so many different models that are completely different from each other in how they play.
"Also try the B40 for a dark sound..... The tip rail of the B40 is wider for eliminating the top overtones and gives for that reason a darker sound."
I play B40 on both Eb and alto and think my sound is on the bright side, but this probably just shows how meaningless these terms are more than anything.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2007-01-25 09:58
“I play B40 on both Eb and alto and think my sound is on the bright side, but this probably just shows how meaningless these terms are more than anything.”
According to Jean-Paul Gouvin, the designer of the Vandoren B40 that is a development of the B45 the idea with B40 is to be able to produce a slightly darker sound with less stuffy reeds. When placing the reed on a given average position the wider tip rail makes the high overtones less projected. You will loose some clarity in the attacks; on the other hand you’ll gain a more stabile high register and loose some in the low register. It’s always a matter of balance.
The B40 series is Vandoren’s contribution to this idea. There are other makers who have the same concept in their models but they are probably more expensive. If money is an issue the B40 is just fine for this purpose compared to other models of Vandoren’s.
On the Eb-clarinet you usually want to eliminate the brightness of the nature of the instrument and also favor the top register. One answer is a wide tip rail.
I think clarnibass will sound even brighter on another of Vandoren’s mouthpieces since all this is very individual.
Alphie
Clarinet/Eb-clarinet RSPO
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-01-25 16:39
I think my school has a Hite mouthpiece with its Eb clarinet that is quite nice. I have also read that Dan Johnston's Eb mouthpieces are particularly nice.
Lori
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2007-01-25 22:27
I had a Yamaha plastic Eb and had both a Walter Grabner and a Fred Rast mouthpiece, both of which worked OK with the Yammie. Sold the Yammie and bought a Patricola-very nicely constucted little jewel- plays well except it's very sharp in the throat tones, open G thru pinch Bb. I have been told to get a larger bore mouthpiece to cure this- would appreciate recommendations. Thanks.
Jerry
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-25 23:12
My Buffet was sharp in the throat notes, so I filled the G, G# and A toneholes in (using hard wax) to flatten them which has worked.
We don't get Yamaha plastic Eb (and alto) clarinets here in the UK (only the 600 and 800 series Ebs).
Are they the same as a Vitos or Yamaha's own design? I saw a Yamaha plastic alto clarinet that looked like a Vito and had Yamaha USA on the top joint, so am I right in assuming they are Vitos too?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: CJB
Date: 2007-01-26 07:30
I've played on the stock Leblanc mouthpiece that came with my Noblet (refaced), a B40 and a couple of Selmer mouthpieces, all fairly open. For me the Selmers are my favorites, but then I favour a fairly open mouthpiece with about strength 3 reeds on all my clarinets.
The B40 was nice but as Alphie's explanation suggests I felt I lacked projection. Fine for blending in but lacked the killer quality to cut across an orchestra when needed.
I probably would have stuck to the Noblet if Eb wasn't turning into my most commonly played instrument! I probably overstated the problem of the dynamics. pp to f were fine but keeping the edge off the sound at ppp to blend in was hard work, preventing the sound from getting overly racous at fff was also a challenge. I prefer instruments with a little resistance, I like something to work against as it gives me a feeling of more security. This of course like so much in the clarinet world is personal preference.
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Author: ajhogan
Date: 2007-01-26 10:27
Anyone have any experience with the Gigliotti HE2 Eb Clarinet. I'm in the market for an Eb that is under $400. I found the Gigliotti for 350, and wondered if it was worth buying.
Austin
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