 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-12-29 23:50
OK, now it might be worthwhile saying what the sausages were all about.
If you're dealing with young players, it can be useful to use a vivid metaphor in order to communicate a basic technical point. In this case, I was dealing with a player who had the wrong idea of what the tongue does, so that there was a strong 'clunk' at the beginning of very many notes.
I picked a passage where it was possible for him to see that he could think of the action of the tongue as STOPPING the previous note rather than as BEGINNING the first note that he was currently thinking of as 'tongued'.
(To clarify that, think of the eighteenth bar of the solo part of the Mozart concerto -- the one that consists of a descending dominant 7th arpeggio starting on a clarinet G at the top of the stave, articulated with one slur between the first two semiquavers and with the rest detached. The young player I was dealing with wasn't playing this piece; but what I said to him was the equivalent of saying, in this bar, that rather than thinking that the first 'tongued' note is the D, he could think that the first 'stopped' note is the F.)
The 'sausage' metaphor -- one of several that I told him about during his lesson -- is then as follows:
Imagine that you're pushing a thick sausage or salami that rests on a wooden board up against a very, VERY sharp, broad knife. Your left hand pushes the sausage, and your right hand fingers control the knife, which is on a hinge that allows it to be moved up and down with very little effort from your fingers.
Whilst pushing the sausage quite hard (it's a good idea to act this out very clearly, because it's the fundamental idea you want to get across) you flick the knife up (releasing the sausage for a moment) and then bring it down almost immediately, cutting through and stopping the sausage once more.
The result is a small chunk of sausage that travels off in the direction you were pushing. (You can act out watching it go:-)
In the Mozart example, the F sets up the 'sausage situation' and the D is the first chunk, to be followed by the B, G and so on.
What creates the flying off of the sausage chunk is the strong left-hand push, whilst the right hand flick can be very gentle (it's a super-hero knife:-)
The idea of all this is to provide an idea that is vivid enough (or stupid enough) to distract the young player from WHAT THEY'VE ALWAYS DONE. Then, remembering it, they may be able to catch on to a better, different way of doing it.
In this sort of situation you have only a few moments with the student and the audience. You want to give them something that they'll remember -- for whatever reason.
Tony
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-12-30 00:34
I do get the analogy.
BUT: it won't work with a salami (or pepperoni, for the pizza section). There's no knife sharp enough and no arm strong and fast enough to chop a salami like this.
Believe me - it works better with celery stalks.
(now back to my Rossini. Tournedos Rossini, that is...)
--
Ben
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-12-30 00:57
tictactux wrote:
>>I do get the analogy. BUT: it won't work with a salami (or pepperoni, for the pizza section). There's no knife sharp enough and no arm strong and fast enough to chop a salami like this.>>
Just before I go to bed -- it's been a long day -- do you think I don't know this?
Further, can you imagine why I DIDN'T change the metaphor so that YOU would think it 'worked' better?
Even further -- the purpose of my post was to try to reach the people who've NEVER thought about staccato in this way.
What was the purpose of yours?
Tony
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-12-30 01:26
Tony,
please. I didn't mean to appear snarky. Sorry if I made this impression.
The purpose of my post was to
- provide you some hapless feedback that I've read and - hopefully - understood your explanation. Indeed I never thought about staccato this way (regardless of it being sausage or celery).
- I did - honestly! - not mean to make the impression I wasn't taking your post seriously. I appreciate everything that advances my own playing, and I think your example does count.
- encourage you to think of realistic analogies. You might end up being castigated by people who tried stuff at home and failed. I just think that analogies must "fit". Must be a whim of mine.
Now if I only could get that tongue/sausage association out of my brain. Arrgh.
--
Ben
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2006-12-30 05:15
As a teacher I watch countless students simply repeating the techniques (no matter how ineffective) that they have always used.
Anything that can allow them a new perspective and the freedom to experiment should be encouraged.
Active demonstrations ie playing, and the use of metaphor are probably our only effective way of communicating complex techniques. The books that I have read on brain function suggest that even if you show what is actually happening. For examples diagrams of tongue position etc..We interpret these ideas our own way. What we think we are doing and what is actually happening can be quite different.
The sausage metaphor is a bit bizarre and for that reason probably effective. It does make me feel hungry though.
Other ones could be :
1. A water hose with the water pressure fully up. with one of those "things"releasing little squirts of water.
2. A machine gun that fires little cotton wool balls. (A bit violent, the cotton wool is an attempt to soften the image).
I think the idea of "release" rather than attack is important.
Having said all this I still find this aspect of technique difficult to teach.
Chris.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2006-12-30 06:53
I see the connection. But I think of it more as the image of holding ones foot over a garden hose and releasing it.
Post Edited (2008-01-23 04:28)
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-12-30 11:11
tictactux wrote:
>>Tony, please. I didn't mean to appear snarky. Sorry if I made this impression.>>
Well, I'm sorry too. I replied on the wrong foot, late at night.
The thing about this metaphor business is that you don't want to be a one-trick pony. Something I have against the electronic medium, including both the BBoard and the Klarinet list, is that it encourages simplification and authoritative pronouncement; whereas teaching is almost always concerned with a PROCESS, and with finding the best way to lead a student to a successful playing experience.
So, the 'sausage-slicing' metaphor was just what seemed appropriate to that kid -- and he did improve, actually, so the metaphor was justified, at least at that moment.
A few years ago I wrote an article, called 'Metaphors for Articulation', in which I outlined six metaphors I'd found useful: 'Mud', 'The Pendulum', 'Pickup and Turntable', 'Half full or half empty?', 'The Bow', and 'The Hosepipe'. Clearly there are others -- you can see that the sausages don't appear, and neither does 'Lightswitch and Power Station', another one that I talked about in Israel. (So I'm not just SAUSAGEMAN:-)
ALL of these can be useful interimly with a student, but they shouldn't be an ENDPOINT for them. Because, I don't think about ANY of them when I encounter an articulated passage, even though I created some of them because I found staccato difficult early in my playing life.
These things should be a 'Wittgenstein's ladder' for the students -- Wittgenstein said that his observations were like a ladder, "to be thrown away once you have surmounted them." So here, what you should be left with is a natural ability to play staccato.
Tony
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-12-30 12:56
Thanks for explaining the metaphor. Ben's comment about the celery works for me, too, because some staccato needs to sound heavier and more sausage-y while other staccato is light and crispy and--oh, dear. This way metaphoric madness lies.
>>These things should be a 'Wittgenstein's ladder' for the students -- Wittgenstein said that his observations were like a ladder, "to be thrown away once you have surmounted them." So here, what you should be left with is a natural ability to play staccato.
>>
Yes. I'll try to remember that.... ;-)
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: William
Date: 2006-12-30 14:53
I wonder if Mr Backun could come out with an improved sausage, specially curved knife or better board which will enhance the slice...............
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-12-30 14:54
Lelia Loban wrote:
>> Ben's comment about the celery works for me, too, because some staccato needs to sound heavier and more sausage-y while other staccato is light and crispy and--oh, dear. This way metaphoric madness lies.>>
The thing to see is that, properly used, the metaphor usually winds up being tailored to the particular student's difficulty, rather than being a general prescription. I've never used celery, but if the kid hadn't been the way he was, I might not have used the sausage.
I once taught an adult who turned out after the lesson to be an engineer. And I could have guessed something of the sort, because at one crucial point, he burst out, "AH! I SEE! The clarinet is a SYSTEM THAT IS OPERATING UNDER PRESSURE!!"
>>> These things should be a 'Wittgenstein's ladder' for the students -- Wittgenstein said that his observations were like a ladder, "to be thrown away once you have surmounted them." So here, what you should be left with is a natural ability to play staccato.>>>
>> Yes. I'll try to remember that.... ;-) >>
Well, you smile, but the message is that the metaphors are intended to be corrective, rather than generative. They help you THROW STUFF AWAY. And that's what Wittgenstein claimed for his philosophy too.
So it's easier than you think -- and if you remember that, you do better.
Tony
Post Edited (2006-12-30 15:09)
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-12-30 14:58
William wrote:
>> I wonder if Mr Backun could come out with an improved sausage, specially curved knife or better board which will enhance the slice...............>>
Oh, enough of him already, along with all those newly possessed of perfect tone, projection and articulation appearing now at a concert hall near you, not.
Tony
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-09-30 20:29
I read all 25 of those metaphors, and it was like reading a list of presidential attempts to be funny at press conferences. All presidents.
And I'm reminded of an old joke about a gorilla in the zoo, a knife, and a sausage. No, I won't repeat it here.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-10-12 02:14)
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2014-10-11 01:31
>> I read all 25 of those, and it was like reading a list of presidential attempts to be funny at press conferences. All presidents.>>
I've since read quite a few of your own posts, looked at your profile, and listened to your recordings.
It was like looking at a presumptuous amateur, grinning.
For better or worse, I try to help people here.
Tony
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-10-11 05:21
>> I've since read quite a few of your own posts, looked at your profile, and listened to your recordings... For better or worse, I try to help people here. <<
I am very appreciative of the solid and almost 100% helpful opinions and advice I've gotten here from you and many others. And I know even the stuff that didn't help me personally was still offered in good faith and was probably good for someone else. I knew that to get help I had to become vulnerable and describe and show everything I've been doing. And I KNOW many of you had to have exercised immense self control not to have some fun at my expense, and for that I thank you. I hope I have been and remain equally kind to others here.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: maxcoletti
Date: 2014-10-11 12:26
Does this metaphor apply also when the note to be tongued is the first one in the piece or phrase? There would be no previous note to stop in this case.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2014-10-11 12:56
In another post, I wrote:
>> A common viewpoint is to think of a staccato passage as being made up of staccato notes -- so that the action of producing a staccato note, repeated, creates a staccato passage. Here we take the opposite viewpoint; namely, we take the staccato passage to be the fundamental structure, thinking of it as an interrupted legato. An isolated staccato note is then dealt with at the end, as a special case. >>
...and later:
>> Till now, we have looked at articulation as something best thought of not as an action that begins a note, but instead as an action mostly to do with the end of the previous note in a sequence.
But then, how do we deal with the awkward question of how we use the tongue when there are no other notes -- the 'special case' I mentioned at the beginning? In other words, what metaphor do we use when we begin a smooth phrase, or just one note? >>
The (quite long) post is at:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=316748&t=316712&v=t
Tony
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2014-10-11 20:39
I want to apologise to Stan for my very ill-considered and rude message a few posts back. My only excuse is that I thought his remark about 'presidential attempts to be funny' was intended to apply to the sum total of my previous efforts to use sausages to get people to understand something about tonguing.
I see now that the '25' was a giveaway to the fact that he was talking about Ben's post; I don't know how I missed that.
I'm very sorry, Stan.
Tony
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-10-11 21:19
Tony- no problem, and I see how I wasn't specific enough either (so I fixed it later). Very easy on forums and online to get confused. Yes I was talking about Obama and Bush 1 and 2 and Reagan and all of them- they joke, and whether it's funny or not people try to laugh. Usually it's lame. And the list of 25 metaphors was about the same. Edit posts however you want, or don't- I wasn't even 100% sure how to interpret what you said. But I absolutely do appreciate all the help here. When various folks on BBoard get crossways of each other, it's often entertaining, but probably not for those involved.
And anyway- my comment about the gorilla in the zoo wasn't completely innocent either. And no, I still won't tell that joke here. And now I hope Ben isn't offended by my comparison. Gee whiz.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-10-12 02:15)
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The Clarinet Pages
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