 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Ashley91489
Date: 2006-12-16 00:52
where it still retains a full and focused tone, not airy sounding. And in such a low volume, what is a good what to do very clean stacato notes?
Also, in a fast 16th note passage, what is the best way to execute a slur from G (open) down to D and then up to throat Bb? That pattern is repeated several times and I'm trying to do it so that it is very precise and clean. It's a somewhat technical piece where the little things such as that are a big focal point.
Post Edited (2006-12-16 00:53)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-12-16 06:16
Ashley -
Make sure you're taking enough mouthpiece. Your lower teeth should be directly below the place the reed separates from the lay. You may need to work on your embouchure strength and air pressure endurance to do this.
Josef Horak showed me how to get a better mouthpiece angle. Rotate the chair clockwise slightly, sit forward and brace your right foot outside the right front chair leg. Then put the floor peg in the corner between your right foot and the chair leg and lean the instrument forward and to the left. Rotate the neck joint and the mouthpiece so the reed is more at the soprano clarinet angle. (Some people prefer to have the reed coming more straight in. It doesn't cost you anything to experiment, though.)
Make sure you're tonguing using the area just back of the tip. Keep the airstream going. Finger low C (all left hand down), put your right hand on your belly and play a staccato scale, C-D-E-F-G-F-E-D-C. If you feel your abdomen moving, making puffs of air on each note, that's causing a lot of the problems you're having. Play a C and practice flicking your tongue tip past the tip of the reed, but not touching it. Then gradually move your tongue forward until it just brushes the reed tip.
For the G-D-Bb slur, watch yourself in a mirror and work to minimize your finger movements. Just nudge up at the A key, rather than rolling your hand or finger, and slide your thumb up to the register key. If there's nothing following the Bb, use the next to top trill key instead of the register key. You could even use your right thumb on the trill key.
Good luck.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-12-16 14:12
I would recommend a fine craftsperson to look after your mouthpiece.
My rejuvenated one even eased up the hissy long b on my alto.
Now I not only can play piano, but organ and harpsichord as well. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2006-12-16 14:58
Regarding mouthpieces, I play a Walter Grabner customized Selmer C*--he called it his CXBS model--and, even though I am not a particularily strong bass clarinetist, I have never encountered any orchestral or wind ensemble music that I could not play with a focused sound. It is perhaps the best piece of clarinetting equipement that I own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: graham
Date: 2006-12-17 16:04
build the air up behind the tongue before releasing it (don't try to co-ordinate air and tongue). Also, the less abrupt the tongue movement the better.
On the semiquaver passage try using the B flat side key to avoid the exaggerated thumb movement needed for the speaker key.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-12-18 16:24
I would second the mouthpiece angle issues. Far too many folks are playing bass clarinet in a contorted position, where the mouthpiece enters the mouth at a tenor saxophone like angle. Playing with a custom neck (through either a manufacturer purchase these days, or one purchased from Charles Bay) will fix this up quickly, but the "adjusted stance" described above is a good interim corrections.
Changing the neck angle allows a more soprano like mouthpiece angle, good for many reasons. Then, the next thing to work on is adequate volume of air being sent through the horn. "Pinching" is another common bass clarinet issue, which can be caused by a number of factors (mouthpiece angle, amount of mouthpiece in mouth, playing on too hard of a reed). Deal with that, and you will be surprised as to how much your tone and timbre will chance.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: graham
Date: 2006-12-18 17:24
As Ken says, the mouthpiece angle issue is personla. Personally I prefer the flatter tragectory.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-12-18 17:54
Graham, there seems to be a culture of bad bass clarinet playing in the UK! I'm not sure that the angle of the mouthpiece (I disagree heartily with your preference) is the problem, but many of the British orchestra recordings I hear seem to have very undistinguished bass clarinet sounds. The other night I was driving home from a concert listening to "Emma d'Antiochia" (Mercadante) recording playing on satellite radio. An amazing bass clarinet solo opened the second act, very competently played, but with a sound that would remove paint! London Philharmonic, to my surprise! While the Brits seem to have come around at last to an "international" sound on oboe, and even to a major extent on clarinet, perhaps your stubborn adherence to a saxophone embouchure on bass clarinet is a holdover!
(I learned my diplomacy from Tony Pay -- whose playing I love!)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-12-18 18:53
Larry, since I like statistics, I'm interested to know how many English (British?) bass clarinetists you've heard, and about how many of them had the "bad" sound you describe? I'm not questioning what you are saying, since I have no clue about English bass clarinetists, but I'm interested to know how you came to these conclusions.
I play with a more soprano clarinet angle on bass, but from the over 30 CDs of bass clarinetists I have (not orchestral, but soloists), all have a great sound, and almsot all (if not all) play with a more sax like angle.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-12-18 19:35
I hate to disagree with Larry, but clearly we have different tastes in bass clarinet sounds, as I have some recordings of English orchestras on which the bass clarinet sounds great to my ears.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-12-18 19:44
Well, Nitai, I always like to initiate a controversy. My generalization, like all generalities, is a lie! I don't deal in statistics, but anecdotally speaking, when I hear a bass clarinet sound that I don't admire on an orchestral recording a large number of times it turns out to be a British orchestra. As to the number of soloists who play "horizontally" rather than "vertically"--embouchure wise--I can't profess to any experience. I do know that Josef Horak espoused a more vertical address.
I do know that when new students come to me playing horizontal, and I switch them to a more vertical address of the mouthpiece, the improvement in sound quality is usually dramatic. And I have some ex-students who are doing pretty damn well in the professional music world! Maybe you should experiment yourself. Or if you are ever in the US in the Washington DC vicinity I'd be happy to give you a gratis lesson.
Larry Bocaner
National Symphony Orchesra, retired
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-12-18 21:42
Dave,
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
Post Edited (2006-12-18 21:42)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-12-19 03:55
Larry - did you miss the part of my post where I said I do use a more vertical angle?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: graham
Date: 2006-12-19 07:45
Larry
You say many UK orchestra performances have undistinguished bass clarinet sounds yet you were surprised to learn that an LPO player had produced such a sound. How could you have been surprised when that confirmed the trend you thought you had observed? Some logical inconsistency there.
In fact it seems to me that the tendency towards more vertically angled bass necks is relatively recent, and the many French instruments of yesteryear had them flatter. My relatively new Czech instrument has the former style flatter neck which was one preference I had over the newer Buffet angled neck and which caused me to choose it over the Buffet (amongst other factors). I should also say that I have heard excellent bass playing from Eastern Europe orchestras; quite different from the average UK player, but excellent on its own terms. Also, it would surprise me if all or even most UK players currently play with flatter necks, which it seems is what you are suggesting. Newer instruments usually come with more angled necks, so I think there is a good chance that many UK players use such instruments.
If there is any prevailing characteristic of a UK bass player is that a diffused and overly beautiful sound is produced at the expense of strength of expression (though I don't doubt that even that is an unfair generalisation). If you heard something that would remove paint, then I can confidently assert that that was untypical.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alexis
Date: 2006-12-19 08:59
Although it is pretty much impossible to tell you anything definitive without hearing you play, is it possible you are choosing the less responsive reeds in the box in order to get what feels to be a comfortable blowing resistance?
Aside from this, make sure you are preparing the notes properly. If you set the embouchure up with tongue on the reed and then release it tends to stop you from pre-empting the reed's response...with good preparation I find the reed speaks much truer...
This will also help your 16th note passage. Make sure that you are being articulate with the first note and also, be very definite with your finger movements. The keys have further to move on bass, and more chance of small glissandos between notes if you are too careful with your fingers. I disagree with using the side key. It makes much more sense to me to keep all the movement in the same hand, and on my bass the sound of the side key isn't significantly better.
As far as articulation goes, what Ken says is great.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
